Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
I have a project I'm working on where I'm using Prusament PC Blend and the parts have to be dimensionally accurate. Polycarbonate shrinks (and warps) when it cools so it needs to be compensated in XY and Z (somewhat). Prusa sets the shrinkage compensation to 0.18% for PC Blend but with the rolls I have, I'm measuring 0.71%. That doesn't seem like a large difference but on long 300mm spars which I need to print, the difference equates to ~2mm.
The question though, is how accurate do you need this and does it even matter? If you are printing Gridfinity boxes or fidget toys etc, then the answer is "no". The default settings are more than good enough. If you are printing functional parts that need to be super accurate (alignment of screw holes for example) then it is a good idea to calibrate the filament even if a vendor provided profile is available.
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
Granted they run their own farm to print functional parts using these materials, that's puzzling
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
I don't think Prusa prints a lot of PC Blend for their printers. In the Core One as far as I know, only the side filament sensor housing is printed in PC blend. PC-CF definitely, example the parts around the nextruder. However, because of the carbon fibers it doesn't suffer from shrinkage and warping as much as PC Blend.
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
Do you think your non standard nozzle could affect this, since it might have different flow characteristics? Im on the hardened nozzle atm, i will do a shrinkage measurement next time i do something out of PC blend, which is a very useful material btw 🙂
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
You are some brave people indeed. I love PC-CF, but pure PC blend has always been a hot mess in my hands.
Formerly known on this forum as @fuchsr -- https://foxrun3d.com/
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
[...] pure PC blend has always been a hot mess in my hands.
Better not to hold your hands directly below the nozzle! 😉
RE:
I cannot speak to Prusament PC Blend, but 3dxTech's ezPC is a (granted more expensive) material that I've been printing at work lately, and that stuff prints exceptionally well and without much fuss. I did have to tune my own profile for it because it is different. From what I have seen on the various brands' TDSs, their stuff claims to be notably stronger with higher temp tolerance than the mainline PC Blends like Prusa, Bambu, Polymaker etc.. I haven't yet tried the cheaper stuff, but the cost is worth it for what we need there, and we genuinely need to maximize the part durability, so I've been hesitant to test cheaper blends.
-J
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
Do you think your non standard nozzle could affect this, since it might have different flow characteristics? Im on the hardened nozzle atm, i will do a shrinkage measurement next time i do something out of PC blend, which is a very useful material btw 🙂
The shrinkage is an intrinsic property of the material as it cools and not how it's extruded.
For reference though, I'm using a Diamondback 0.4 nozzle for my test. Diamondback nozzles you can lower the temperature due to better thermal conductivity over brass or steel. So for the same temperature you get better layer adhesion with high temp materials. It also allows me to decently print PPA-CF which at 290C is the lower of the temp range.
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
You are some brave people indeed. I love PC-CF, but pure PC blend has always been a hot mess in my hands.
PC Blend is awesome but it's requires a lot more hand-holding than PC-CF. The print quality is some of the best I've seen to date.
- It's way more expensive than ASA (for me $52/kg)
- Degree of warping depends on what color you are printing. Example black warps more than white.
- To control warping on larger parts need the chamber at 55C+. I have the top lid insulated and can get up to 60C
- Also to control warping I found increasing perimeters and decreasing infill helps
- Depending on the size of the part a brim will be needed
- A decent print bed. The BIQU Cyrogrip Pro works well for me. Garolite G10 is also a good choice. Otherwise glue
RE:
I cannot speak to Prusament PC Blend, but 3dxTech's ezPC is a (granted more expensive) material that I've been printing at work lately, and that stuff prints exceptionally well and without much fuss. I did have to tune my own profile for it because it is different. From what I have seen on the various brands' TDSs, their stuff claims to be notably stronger with higher temp tolerance than the mainline PC Blends like Prusa, Bambu, Polymaker etc.. I haven't yet tried the cheaper stuff, but the cost is worth it for what we need there, and we genuinely need to maximize the part durability, so I've been hesitant to test cheaper blends.
-J
I had a look at that but the color choice is limited so can't use it for my project. I've been learning that PC blends are typically copolymers of either PC-PETG or PC-ABS. When I'm extruding PC Blend I thought I smelled styrene (or imagined I did) which would imply ABS. But then when I looked at other vendors PC-ABS blends, in particular Polymaker PC-ABS they require a minimum 90C chamber temp! I only know of 2 printers that can do that, the Prusa HT90 and the Vision Miner 22 IDEX.
It's most likely that Prusament PC Blend is (probably) PC-PETG
RE:
One more thing to add... PC filaments must be printed in a well ventilated area. I keep my printer next to a window with an exhaust fan in place.
RE:
One more thing to add... PC filaments must be printed in a well ventilated area. I keep my printer next to a window with an exhaust fan in place.
Both my personal Core One and the Q2 where I work are ducted outside with a booster PC case fan to supplement the exhaust fans. I would like to know what 3dxTech uses for their blend. When I print at work I run the chamber maxed out at 65. The ezPC has far better layer adhesion than the FR PC/ABS that I also print there. Even at 65c , the chamber is well below their recommended temps for the FR PC/ABS. It works for the parts we're making, but I'd love to have a hotter chamber for it. It's threading a needle between saggy corners and poor layer adhesion. I have to run a bit of the part cooling fan to keep the corners sharp, but I'm sure that hurts layer adhesion. There are no official profiles for these specialty filaments, so I'm left to my own limited knowledge and experimentation to figure it out.
-J
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
One more thing to add... PC filaments must be printed in a well ventilated area. I keep my printer next to a window with an exhaust fan in place.
I have to run a bit of the part cooling fan to keep the corners sharp, but I'm sure that hurts layer adhesion. There are no official profiles for these specialty filaments, so I'm left to my own limited knowledge and experimentation to figure it out.
-J
I've had to do something similar. I get decent adhesion on a Cryogrip Pro plate as long as I run it hot at 115-120C. I also have tried printing on a Garolite G10 sheet and that also works reasonably well but I have to lightly sand it to prep it.
I have a bottle of this arriving on Wednesday: NANO POLYMER ADHESIVE
Youtuber's seem positive on this but I always take those reviews with a grain of salt. I'll report back whether it works well or is snake oil. I have also have Magigoo PC on the way and will try that as well.
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
I've used Magigoo PC before and it did a decent job for the small parts I was printing. But then again, my experience with regular PC blend is very limited.
Formerly known on this forum as @fuchsr -- https://foxrun3d.com/
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
I have a bottle of that vision miner NPA, but due to some likely unrelated problems, I haven't used it much.
I initially purchased it for use on the Q2. The couple of prints I ran on it seemed to work fine on the stock Q2 textured plate. Then I ran a flow calibration on it with FR PC/ABS and it pulled chunks of texture off when I removed it. Following that experience, I went back to using the Qidi supplied glue stick. The glue stick also worked, but I continued to have occasional texture pulled off of the plate, despite quite easy release of the parts. I suspected a bad plate. We ordered a second textured plate, and so far I'm only running glue stick on it for fear of damage. I bought a package of Elmer's purple glue stick and I apply it to the plate, then scrub it into a slurry with warm water on a paper towel. This allows me to spread it very evenly so as not to disturb the consistency of the textured surface. I'm printing a type of electronics cover face down so the base of the print needs to look as close to perfect as possible.
When I reached out to Qidi about the failed texture, they suggested that perhaps the sheet I got was an experimental coating that had higher adhesion. I don't know how much I trust that explanation, but I'm trying to stack up the jobs on this new plate to see if it will hold up better. The texture is finer, but the color is the same, so we'll see. So far with the same surface prep and glue slurry, parts are releasing easier from this plate than the first. It could also be that this one isn't "broken in" yet.
-J
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
That's interesting. I may try this on my G10 sheet first. Given that it's epoxied fiberglass there is no worry of pulling chunks off of it.
Then I ran a flow calibration on it with FR PC/ABS and it pulled chunks of texture off when I removed it.
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
I print 90% of my current production with Prusament PCBlend. The parts I do don't suffer too much from spatial distortion but there is a model that is driving me nuts with warping. I ended up using Magigoo PC but it seems to do nasty things, after a bunch of prints, to my cryo plate (some little pieces of the coating detached).
I am using the latest SW on the printer and for the slicer and the stock prusa pcblend filament profile.
If anyone has an idea on how to avoid this rather annoying warping I'd love to hear it.
Anectodically, on my mk4s in the prusa enclosure I never had this issue.
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
I print 90% of my current production with Prusament PCBlend. The parts I do don't suffer too much from spatial distortion but there is a model that is driving me nuts with warping. I ended up using Magigoo PC but it seems to do nasty things, after a bunch of prints, to my cryo plate (some little pieces of the coating detached).
I am using the latest SW on the printer and for the slicer and the stock prusa pcblend filament profile.
If anyone has an idea on how to avoid this rather annoying warping I'd love to hear it.
Anectodically, on my mk4s in the prusa enclosure I never had this issue.
I use a Garolite G10 sheet. There are several places you can get them premade for the MK4 footprint but they are expensive. Depending on where you live you can buy 3 Cryo sheets for the same price. I needed it to print POM because it's the only surface POM will stick to. It works well with PC and is immune to glue stick since it doesn't have a coating.
I started with this one (which still works) clipped to the print bed: Luminate 3D Printer Build Surface Plate Upgrade (254x235x2) G10 Garolite and I also use one mounted on rigid steel sheet: Prusa i3 MK4 MK3(S)(+), XL, and Mini Spring Steel Build Plate with Configurable Top
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
thanks! Darn, really expensive though ...
I print 90% of my current production with Prusament PCBlend. The parts I do don't suffer too much from spatial distortion but there is a model that is driving me nuts with warping. I ended up using Magigoo PC but it seems to do nasty things, after a bunch of prints, to my cryo plate (some little pieces of the coating detached).
I am using the latest SW on the printer and for the slicer and the stock prusa pcblend filament profile.
If anyone has an idea on how to avoid this rather annoying warping I'd love to hear it.
Anectodically, on my mk4s in the prusa enclosure I never had this issue.
I use a Garolite G10 sheet. There are several places you can get them premade for the MK4 footprint but they are expensive. Depending on where you live you can buy 3 Cryo sheets for the same price. I needed it to print POM because it's the only surface POM will stick to. It works well with PC and is immune to glue stick since it doesn't have a coating.
I started with this one (which still works) clipped to the print bed: Luminate 3D Printer Build Surface Plate Upgrade (254x235x2) G10 Garolite and I also use one mounted on rigid steel sheet: Prusa i3 MK4 MK3(S)(+), XL, and Mini Spring Steel Build Plate with Configurable Top
RE: Discovering that PrusaSlicer settings for Prusa's own filaments are not always accurate
Definitely not cheap but they are indestructible. And it's a lot easier to remove glue from them. You can clean it with acetone which is convenient.
thanks! Darn, really expensive though ...