RE: Chamber temperature
You're not crazy (AFAIK!) but we get to do things that a manufacturer just can't risk with volume production. My guess is we won't see an affordable high temperature solution any time soon, though maybe you can pave the way!
RE: Chamber temperature
I'm willing to sacrifice my C1 to science now that it's no longer my main printer. The C1 will (soon I hope) have an INDX extension. I may want to explore an actively heated chamber option.
RE: Chamber temperature
My guess is we won't see an affordable high temperature solution any time soon, though maybe you can pave the way!
I may want to explore an actively heated chamber option.
I personally chose Prusa because I believe open source is a good choice. It opens up new possibilities, fosters new ways of thinking, and enables the realization of new ideas and methods. Of course, it also provides an opportunity for people and companies to generate their own revenue.
Bambu Lab is a good company that builds great printers. I’ve owned one myself. The entire hardware and software setup is tailored to the user from the very first minute. Slicer, app, and printer software—just turn it on and go. Unfortunately, when it comes to software, Bambu Lab quickly hits a wall if you want to customize anything—but what’s there to customize when everything works?
My high-temperature conversion might serve as inspiration for Prusa, but I don’t think a single person can show such a large company how it can work—Prusa has better staff on hand to implement this more competently than my AI machine can program for me.
The fact is, everyone has to decide for themselves whether Prusa printers (specifically the C1 and C1L) are suitable for high-temperature applications or not. I decided to go with the modification because the AI machine, Metacollin, and the GitHub entries saved me the hassle of using external components, and I can now handle all the necessary functions (active heating, HT nozzle, ventilation, filtration, etc.) through a smart firmware update.
I am, of course, aware that Prusa (and other companies) always take the safe route to ensure reliability and durability. Customers who buy the printer expect 100% safety. Any additional risks associated with HT modifications must be very carefully and thoroughly considered.
Mods for Core One: Core One HT 450 degrees, Comfortable display , Very fast print start and Reducing noises
Mods for Prusa XL: Very fast print start
RE: Chamber temperature
My solution isn’t really a high-temperature alternative, but more of a way to help reach the temperature even under less-than-ideal conditions.
I think it’s safe up to 60 degrees, as Prusa has approved this temperature for the Core L.
I deliberately looked for a standalone solution and wanted to keep the Core One as close to the original as possible. But integrating it into the firmware is, of course, much more elegant. Besides, I must admit that I haven’t built my own Marlin firmware since the Ender 3 days. And it never even occurred to me to do it with Ki.
Just out of interest, what kind of heating element do you use and where do you install it? Do you control it via the Hackerboard?
My guess is we won't see an affordable high temperature solution any time soon, though maybe you can pave the way!
I may want to explore an actively heated chamber option.
I personally chose Prusa because I believe open source is a good choice. It opens up new possibilities, fosters new ways of thinking, and enables the realization of new ideas and methods. Of course, it also provides an opportunity for people and companies to generate their own revenue.
Bambu Lab is a good company that builds great printers. I’ve owned one myself. The entire hardware and software setup is tailored to the user from the very first minute. Slicer, app, and printer software—just turn it on and go. Unfortunately, when it comes to software, Bambu Lab quickly hits a wall if you want to customize anything—but what’s there to customize when everything works?
My high-temperature conversion might serve as inspiration for Prusa, but I don’t think a single person can show such a large company how it can work—Prusa has better staff on hand to implement this more competently than my AI machine can program for me.
The fact is, everyone has to decide for themselves whether Prusa printers (specifically the C1 and C1L) are suitable for high-temperature applications or not. I decided to go with the modification because the AI machine, Metacollin, and the GitHub entries saved me the hassle of using external components, and I can now handle all the necessary functions (active heating, HT nozzle, ventilation, filtration, etc.) through a smart firmware update.
I am, of course, aware that Prusa (and other companies) always take the safe route to ensure reliability and durability. Customers who buy the printer expect 100% safety. Any additional risks associated with HT modifications must be very carefully and thoroughly considered.
RE: Chamber temperature
Just out of interest, what kind of heating element do you use and where do you install it? Do you control it via the Hackerboard?
I got the hardware modifications from this post:
There’s more detailed information about this on GitHub:
https://github.com/metacollin/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy
I have published my Prusa Core One HT conversion on Printables and will also present all subsequent changes there:
https://www.printables.com/model/1638476-prusa-core-one-hightemp-450-modification-for-britt
The modified firmware for the Prusa Core One is here:
https://github.com/jandslay/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy-Core-One-HT450
Mods for Core One: Core One HT 450 degrees, Comfortable display , Very fast print start and Reducing noises
Mods for Prusa XL: Very fast print start
RE: Chamber temperature
I noticed this as well, and it got me really anoyed...
And I am even more anoyed that it is not in the release notes.
My curent theory is they are doing this under the carpet, so they can have better temps once they push out new HT hotend - so we have more reason to buy it...
I used to print policarbonate at steady 64C without problems.
Now at 60C I get printer screaming and panicking, and fans kick in 100%, gives me rapid cooling to 55C.
I don't like that at all.
RE: Chamber temperature
I noticed this as well, and it got me really anoyed...
And I am even more anoyed that it is not in the release notes.
My curent theory is they are doing this under the carpet, so they can have better temps once they push out new HT hotend - so we have more reason to buy it...
I used to print policarbonate at steady 64C without problems.
Now at 60C I get printer screaming and panicking, and fans kick in 100%, gives me rapid cooling to 55C.I don't like that at all.
Another problem is they lowered the panic temperature from 75° to 65°. So if you hit 65, the printer won't give you a nice warning, it will crash out with an over-temp.
RE: Chamber temperature
I noticed this as well, and it got me really anoyed...
And I am even more anoyed that it is not in the release notes.
My curent theory is they are doing this under the carpet, so they can have better temps once they push out new HT hotend - so we have more reason to buy it...
I used to print policarbonate at steady 64C without problems.
Now at 60C I get printer screaming and panicking, and fans kick in 100%, gives me rapid cooling to 55C.I don't like that at all.
Another problem is they lowered the panic temperature from 75° to 65°. So if you hit 65, the printer won't give you a nice warning, it will crash out with an over-temp.
It can't even reach 61°C now, with 100% fan spinning as soon as it gets to 60°C...
As You all mentioned, funniest is how this went in low altitude flight below radar, no mentioning in Git or anywhere...
For sure, they've hit some road block with HT hot end, My doubts are: last update got delayed because of it, and we don't have HT yet.
RE: Chamber temperature
Im agree with the Jan D Slay test.
I believe that reaching 320 or 350 degrees with an active chamber of 60 or 65 degrees maximum would be the correct thing for the HT hotend update.
This would allow Prusa users to avoid being tempted to switch to a Bambu Lab.
Of course, if you need to print PEEK, ULTEM, or other such demanding materials (400 degrees of extrusion and a 90 degree chamber at least) you now need a custom-built industrial printer to withstand that work environment.
RE: Chamber temperature
Im agree with the Jan D Slay test.
I believe that reaching 320 or 350 degrees with an active chamber of 60 or 65 degrees maximum would be the correct thing for the HT hotend update.
This would allow Prusa users to avoid being tempted to switch to a Bambu Lab.
Of course, if you need to print PEEK, ULTEM, or other such demanding materials (400 degrees of extrusion and a 90 degree chamber at least) you now need a custom-built industrial printer to withstand that work environment.
I ran my Core One at 60-61° for awhile and noticed the door was getting fogged. Turns out it was lubricant that was aerosol sprayed onto door most likely from running at the high prolonged temp. Without extensive modification, I don't think the Core One will work reliably above 55° for an extended period. A prosumer level CoreXY is a 300^3 build volume with >350° hotend and 65° actively heated chamber. I would expect the Core Two to have these features a minimum. I can't imagine an upgrade path though for a Core One or Core One L.
RE: Chamber temperature
You're right. Meaby this could be the beginning of the new "core two" But i'm not sure it will happen soon. Not at all.
RE: Chamber temperature
Im agree with the Jan D Slay test.
I believe that reaching 320 or 350 degrees with an active chamber of 60 or 65 degrees maximum would be the correct thing for the HT hotend update.
This would allow Prusa users to avoid being tempted to switch to a Bambu Lab.
Of course, if you need to print PEEK, ULTEM, or other such demanding materials (400 degrees of extrusion and a 90 degree chamber at least) you now need a custom-built industrial printer to withstand that work environment.
I ran my Core One at 60-61° for awhile and noticed the door was getting fogged. Turns out it was lubricant that was aerosol sprayed onto door most likely from running at the high prolonged temp. Without extensive modification, I don't think the Core One will work reliably above 55° for an extended period. A prosumer level CoreXY is a 300^3 build volume with >350° hotend and 65° actively heated chamber. I would expect the Core Two to have these features a minimum. I can't imagine an upgrade path though for a Core One or Core One L.
Hmm, interesting, i got a slimey surface on the inner door surface which confused me a bit, and i havent printed much above 55 other than one or two prints, and many lower temp prints aswell, had no clue on what it was. That core two sounds great, hopefully it could also come with a bowden/extruder that handle brittle filaments aswell 😉
RE: Chamber temperature
Panels can get fogged by plastics evaporates, VOC's and a lot of additives that get mixed into it. Especially since You are melting them at high temperatures.
Less of those evaporations is from grease itself. *I cant deny 100% it couldn't evaporate, it certainly does, but not a lot at 50-60°C, since working temperatures for those lithium greases with lighter viscosity are from -50°C to ~ +180°C. Grease that is compatible with ones that prusa uses, That I use as replacement in maintenance has those temperatures in datasheet. You can also look at datasheets of lithium greases that are EP2 to find out their working environments and limits.
ABS and ASA evaporate a lot, and release a lot of particles.
PC also, even though less than ABS. Polypropylene and and HDPE evaporates a lot of paraffin waxes.
Im agree with the Jan D Slay test.
I believe that reaching 320 or 350 degrees with an active chamber of 60 or 65 degrees maximum would be the correct thing for the HT hotend update.
This would allow Prusa users to avoid being tempted to switch to a Bambu Lab.
Of course, if you need to print PEEK, ULTEM, or other such demanding materials (400 degrees of extrusion and a 90 degree chamber at least) you now need a custom-built industrial printer to withstand that work environment.
I ran my Core One at 60-61° for awhile and noticed the door was getting fogged. Turns out it was lubricant that was aerosol sprayed onto door most likely from running at the high prolonged temp. Without extensive modification, I don't think the Core One will work reliably above 55° for an extended period. A prosumer level CoreXY is a 300^3 build volume with >350° hotend and 65° actively heated chamber. I would expect the Core Two to have these features a minimum. I can't imagine an upgrade path though for a Core One or Core One L.
RE: Chamber temperature
I would totally agree with the things have been said here. I don't think any of the used greases has this kind of evaporation. The movement speeds and temperatures are way bellow any datasheet limits what an actual manufacturing application would accommodate. The used filament types have much more effect on spreading out additives and other VOCs. That said, I haven't had such prominent effect on my front glass, only slightly, but I regularly clean it. I never thought of that that it is in connection with higher chamber temperatures, as it appears on 55C as well as nearly 70.
RE: Chamber temperature
Take a look at this from 15:40
Panels can get fogged by plastics evaporates, VOC's and a lot of additives that get mixed into it. Especially since You are melting them at high temperatures.
Less of those evaporations is from grease itself. *I cant deny 100% it couldn't evaporate, it certainly does, but not a lot at 50-60°C, since working temperatures for those lithium greases with lighter viscosity are from -50°C to ~ +180°C. Grease that is compatible with ones that prusa uses, That I use as replacement in maintenance has those temperatures in datasheet. You can also look at datasheets of lithium greases that are EP2 to find out their working environments and limits.
ABS and ASA evaporate a lot, and release a lot of particles.
PC also, even though less than ABS. Polypropylene and and HDPE evaporates a lot of paraffin waxes.
RE: Chamber temperature
I watched this video 2 months ago. I didn't bother to comment yet since I would expect a follow up video, but there was none, (good reminder to go post a question about that).
Great video by the way.
But at that point of the video, I couldn't decide if that is pre-lubrication that goes on linear rail from the factory, to prevent rusting during storage and shipment, that wasn't cleaned (Which shouldn't happen, since factory removes that).
Or it was overfilled by the production line.
At any case, Microlube GL261 at 50-60C - that lube shouldn't be liquid (This statement is estimated from lubricant manufacturers data sheets, not only looking at maximum operating temperatures, but by looking at viscosity at temperatures).
If it was the pre lube, manuals do suggest that linear rail should be cleaned with dry wipes before use.
Also, You shouldn't grease the linear rail itself. Only as XL guide suggests.
On the point, if that is the case with most ONE L printers, they would probably recommend other type of lube, GL262 or somethig else similar.
*I didn't see many posts on the forum about Core One L drippings 😀
**I can't tell more about this since I don't own L model, Only +
***And I can't tell more from watching 1 Youtube video.
What I can tell is only from my knowledge, and from what I know.
I printed in Core One+ on more than 60C plus before recent firmware, with no lubrication leakage.
Take a look at this from 15:40
Panels can get fogged by plastics evaporates, VOC's and a lot of additives that get mixed into it. Especially since You are melting them at high temperatures.
Less of those evaporations is from grease itself. *I cant deny 100% it couldn't evaporate, it certainly does, but not a lot at 50-60°C, since working temperatures for those lithium greases with lighter viscosity are from -50°C to ~ +180°C. Grease that is compatible with ones that prusa uses, That I use as replacement in maintenance has those temperatures in datasheet. You can also look at datasheets of lithium greases that are EP2 to find out their working environments and limits.
ABS and ASA evaporate a lot, and release a lot of particles.
PC also, even though less than ABS. Polypropylene and and HDPE evaporates a lot of paraffin waxes.
RE:
To be honest, I bought my CoreOne as a kit and never used the original lubricant, instead I cleaned everything and used my own during assembly. For rolling bearings and linear rails Mobil Mobilux EP2 and sliding mechanisms (lead screws) SyncoLube MP Syncolon. Both have high temp rating (130C / 232C). The recommended Microlube GL261 for the Core L has a relatively same thickness/viscosity at around 50-60C as the EP2, guess they are quite replaceable. Maybe that's why I did not have any bad experience with it on the CoreOne+
RE: Chamber temperature
*Microlube GL261 is recommended for linear rails only (For both C1 and C1L).
Rest of the linear rods and bearings are NLGI 2, Which Mobilux EP2 is, but Mobilux is more viscous at working temperatures than what factory would choose.
Anyway, If everything is normal, I don't think 60-65 or 70 Celsius would be much for greases. I would worry more about electronics at the loveboard.
To be honest, I bought my CoreOne as a kit and never used the original lubricant, instead I cleaned everything and used my own during assembly. For rolling bearings and linear rails Mobil Mobilux EP2 and sliding mechanisms (lead screws) SyncoLube MP Syncolon. Both have high temp rating (130C / 232C). The recommended Microlube GL261 for the Core L has a relatively same thickness/viscosity at around 50-60C as the EP2, guess they are quite replaceable. Maybe that's why I did not have any bad experience with it on the CoreOne+
RE: Chamber temperature
Hello everyone, I’d like to weigh in again on the topic of chamber temperature. My project is still under construction. I’ve had some success in adjusting the chamber temperature to my desired level. The fans are now also running in sync with the PTC heater just as I want them to—all thanks to Prusa’s firmware. The water cooling system is also running smoothly.
That was the good news.
But I’m stuck because, no matter how I program it (or have it programmed), there just aren’t enough sensors.
I only have a single chamber temperature sensor and a heatsink temperature sensor that doesn’t provide accurate readings due to the water cooling. Fans 1 and 2 can’t be controlled individually—I can’t get it to work because a message always pops up saying they’re receiving a shared signal from the xBuddy board. Fan 3 currently controls the water cooling at the heat exchanger, but there’s a lack of sensors here that can’t be connected.
The filtration is completely offline because it simply can’t be managed with the current hardware setup.
So what does this mean? I won’t get any further if I keep relying solely on tweaking the Prusa firmware and hoping my hardware will work the way I envision it.
I’m currently developing a system to control my heating and cooling. The control via the firmware will be removed from the code.
What I noticed while setting up and routing all the cables: My Loveboard is also getting a stepper motor cooling attachment. The board will be coated with thermal paste, and the cooling surface will dissipate the heat outward.
My current status: Water cooling works, but achieving and maintaining the desired temperature with the chamber heating is very difficult to implement with the existing sensors and hardware. I need an external system with more features to help me reach my goal.
Mods for Core One: Core One HT 450 degrees, Comfortable display , Very fast print start and Reducing noises
Mods for Prusa XL: Very fast print start
RE:
Anyway, with the new 6.5.3 firmware the chamber fans will cut on aggressively > 55°, alerts will start at 60° and the printer will intentionally crash out at 65°. So to get the chamber higher than that would need to either move the chamber thermistor to the bottom of the enclosure to "trick" it or patch the firmware.