Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core  

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

The most mature thing I've read on the internet today. Very adulty, I like it!

Posted by: @volker

Let's finalize: Prusa is good; Bambo is good. You decide by design and cost. No reason to frame anybody.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I am not trying to frame anybody.  When I get a response that Prusa is great just because, I take that into consideration.  I have had bad experiences wirh Prusa Machines.  I have an MK3/S, an MK4, and an XL (5 heads).  The MK4  prints nice after I got the bugs worked out.  The XL filament feed and cable management going to the toolheads is an abomination  if it works for you, great.  It doesn't work for me.  The belt tuner app doesn't work on my phone, and I have been waiting for over a year for a decent firmware for the XL.

I just want to print, not futz with the printer.  I normally design my own stuff with Alibre Design.  I have has several other older 3D printers that I have trashed because they weren't worth it to upgrade.  That's why I have an MK4.  It simply wasn't cost effective to upgrade the MK3/S.  These printers were purchased as kits, so I don't mind the work putting them together.  The MK4 and XL both run with Octoprint, using two custom built Octopi boxes with touch screens so I can control the printers locally.  Prusaconnect is still too immature to use and I can't add plugins to it.

That's what attracted me to Bambu X1C.  I can get a complete, mature machine at a decent price that has the features I want, and some features that Prusa hasn't even thought of yet.  The use of lidar is a really interesting way to do first layer calibration.  I have seen the complete machines at Microcenter and can see how they are built.  The Chinese can do some decent engineering when they aren't looking to cut costs.  The X1C looks decent at about 1/2 the fully equipped price of the Prusa One.  I won't have to build a box to locally control the printer because there firmware will do it from the printer control panel.

Anyway that's my take on a new Prusa printer.  In my experience, their quality and engineering expertise is slipping badly.  They are getting out of the Open Source (try getting the engineering electronic documentation for the MK4 or XL).  They are also trying to get into the high end engineering printers.

For the record, I have designed and worked with manufacturing of high-end machines similar to 3D printers, so when I talk about engineering issues, I have experience in this area.  I also have an MSEE, an MSME, and an MBA.

Thanks to all that have responded here.

Steve

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I am not trying to frame anybody.  When I get a response that Prusa is great just because, I take that into consideration.  I have had bad experiences wirh Prusa Machines.  I have an MK3/S, an MK4, and an XL (5 heads).  The MK4  prints nice after I got the bugs worked out.  The XL filament feed and cable management going to the toolheads is an abomination  if it works for you, great.  It doesn't work for me.  The belt tuner app doesn't work on my phone, and I have been waiting for over a year for a decent firmware for the XL.

I just want to print, not futz with the printer.  I normally design my own stuff with Alibre Design.  I have has several other older 3D printers that I have trashed because they weren't worth it to upgrade.  That's why I have an MK4.  It simply wasn't cost effective to upgrade the MK3/S.  These printers were purchased as kits, so I don't mind the work putting them together.  The MK4 and XL both run with Octoprint, using two custom built Octopi boxes with touch screens so I can control the printers locally.  Prusaconnect is still too immature to use and I can't add plugins to it.

That's what attracted me to Bambu X1C.  I can get a complete, mature machine at a decent price that has the features I want, and some features that Prusa hasn't even thought of yet.  The use of lidar is a really interesting way to do first layer calibration.  I have seen the complete machines at Microcenter and can see how they are built.  The Chinese can do some decent engineering when they aren't looking to cut costs.  The X1C looks decent at about 1/2 the fully equipped price of the Prusa One.  I won't have to build a box to locally control the printer because there firmware will do it from the printer control panel.

Anyway that's my take on a new Prusa printer.  In my experience, their quality and engineering expertise is slipping badly.  They are getting out of the Open Source (try getting the engineering electronic documentation for the MK4 or XL).  They are also trying to get into the high end engineering printers.

For the record, I have designed and worked with manufacturing of high-end machines similar to 3D printers, so when I talk about engineering issues, I have experience in this area.  I also have an MSEE, an MSME, and an MBA.

Thanks to all that have responded here.

Steve

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

The Core One is not twice as expensive as an X1C!
At least not in Europe.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I have used the filament runout sensor successfully when printing via OctoPrint many times, usually to continue printing with another spool. It has been working (for me at least) since the fall of 2023.

Same goes for the pause/resume via the display on the printer of a running print job that was started via OctoPrint. I use this when I see a blob on my print and want to remove it. I press pause on the display, remove the blob, press resume and the print continues without a problem within OctoPrint. I just used this feature yesterday, the print job is still running, about 10 hours later.

If those functions are not working for you, then you perhaps did not complete all the steps in the official setup instructions for OctoPrint maintained by Prusa on this page?:
https://help.prusa3d.com/guide/octoprint-setup-on-mk4-s-mk3-9-s-mk3-5-s-xl_646395

The progress display is not working, as I already stated in my post above, but that does not make the printer unusable via OctoPrint for me.
The display shows that it is printing via serial printing, so the printer is not unaware of that.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

The Core One is not twice as expensive as an X1C!At least not in Europe.

I'm not in Europe.  I was also talking about one with the AMS and camera.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I have used the filament runout sensor successfully when printing via OctoPrint many times, usually to continue printing with another spool. It has been working (for me at least) since the fall of 2023.

Same goes for the pause/resume via the display on the printer of a running print job that was started via OctoPrint. I use this when I see a blob on my print and want to remove it. I press pause on the display, remove the blob, press resume and the print continues without a problem within OctoPrint. I just used this feature yesterday, the print job is still running, about 10 hours later.

If those functions are not working for you, then you perhaps did not complete all the steps in the official setup instructions for OctoPrint maintained by Prusa on this page?: https://help.prusa3d.com/guide/octoprint-setup-on-mk4-s-mk3-9-s-mk3-5-s-xl_646395

The progress display is not working, as I already stated in my post above, but that does not make the printer unusable via OctoPrint for me.The display shows that it is printing via serial printing, so the printer is not unaware of that.

I never mentioned that.  The filament runout sensor works ok on the XL, but not on the MK4.  On the MK4, I get filament runout sensed when there is still filament in the Nextruder and runout hasn't occured.  Very annoying.  I have taken it apart and cleaned the components, and done the calibration, but it still happens.  I ended up turning off the filament sensor.   I only use Octoprint, and if I cancel a job under Octoprint, the Nextruder doesn't move up, and I have to move the Z axis manually using Octoprint.  Prusa even admits their firmware doesn't play well with Octoprint.  I used Octoprint with the MK3/S.

Prusa should have bought Octoprint instead of trying to roll their own. Might have been cheaper, but it wasn't my decision.  Octoprint is a much more mature product.  I use Octoprint remotely using a VPN on my router.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Then your experience with the MK4 and OctoPrint is different from mine, sorry about that. I also use OctoPrint with an MK3S+ and both printers behave the same way. Filament run-out sensors work correctly on both printers. Printer beeps when the spool is finished, waits until I put in new filament, print continues as it should. I have done this at least once this week on both printers.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Posted by: @steve-4

I never mentioned that.  The filament runout sensor works ok on the XL, but not on the MK4.  On the MK4, I get filament runout sensed when there is still filament in the Nextruder and runout hasn't occured.  Very annoying.  I have taken it apart and cleaned the components, and done the calibration, but it still happens.  I ended up turning off the filament sensor.   I only use Octoprint, and if I cancel a job under Octoprint, the Nextruder doesn't move up, and I have to move the Z axis manually using Octoprint.  Prusa even admits their firmware doesn't play well with Octoprint.  I used Octoprint with the MK3/S.

Prusa should have bought Octoprint instead of trying to roll their own. Might have been cheaper, but it wasn't my decision.  Octoprint is a much more mature product.  I use Octoprint remotely using a VPN on my router.

Are you sure that what you are diagnosing is a runout and not a partial clog sensed by the strain gauge seeing too high a pressure in the nozzle? I ask because I was getting that while printing a filament with black specs (I think black mica) on a 0.25mm nozzle. I knew it wasn't advised but I was experimenting. My symptom was only the printer going into a filament change routine during the print. (Which was being run through OctoPrint which simply paused and waited for me to take action.)

Your issue with OctoPrint not moving the extruder up when you cancel a print in OctoPrint probably means that you don't have the cancel print gcode in your printer definition in OctoPrint set up properly. I'm not connected to my home network so I can't look up my settings for you to try. But as I recall I got the settings from a guide for configuring a Prusa printer in OctoPrint.

And about Prusa (or anyone else) "buying" OctoPrint... OctoPrint is an opensource project. If Prusa wanted to use it, all they would have to do is fork it (like they did with Slic3r and Marlin) or join Gina on the development team.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Don't be surprised if BL implements a "subscription" business model. Given the closed nature of their system I would not become a customer. But that is just my 2 cents.

RE:

there is an official Prusa reseller/service in usa: https://www.printedsolid.com/search?q=Original%20Prusa%203D%20Printers

Posted by: @steve-4

The Core One is not twice as expensive as an X1C!At least not in Europe.

I'm not in Europe.  I was also talking about one with the AMS and camera.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I think you pointed in the right direction "excellent slicer and workflow etc."  and it's really important if someone use a 3d printer to print, not as a toy, or furniture.
On the last formnext i saw multiple places where people were using prusa slicer, not only on the Prusa site. I saw big industrial 3d printer using prusa slicer as a slicing tool, where the control panel was integrated with prusa slicer. You mentined that you have SLA printer, so you use also the same excellent slicer. But try to check and use other vendor SLA printer and discover by yourself what does it mean service as a software substitute, and monthly fees to use any other SLA printer, since slicing there it's a bit different thing. I understand you are not concerned about "reprap and opensource" but at least you should be aware that any progress here we see is based on the effort which is shared with others, on top of libre permissive licenses, which then is just copy pasted by chinese companies with license violations. For example you can see now on the market companies trying to "rebrand" prusa slic3r, even removing information from the license statement, and doing the same on the firmware side, like very popular way of limiting klipper with some constrains and obfuscating possibility to login to the board. But i think recent development with BL will also raise attention to the topic, but for some people it will be a non stoper, they will just use b studio, instead of orca. So i think it's just other segment of the market, which i think was well ilustrated on the last formnext. On the Prusa site one could see and touch real working mechanical assemblies printed on the corresponding printers, like for example on BL there was a instagram selfie show with silly toys printed (omitting the fact of huge plastic waste, and significant cost disadvantage in ownership BL in the long run,  even one don't care about environment impact, and it's fine with wasting more filament during print than the printed thing itself) still prints there were simple, and colorful, still i ACK that some people liked those colorful toys 😉 like in any other demo site probably, they just targeted specific customers.  Still on Prusa site you could touch working and printing nice complex things devices, and see wooden chassis for core one ;), together with their new SLA's, ht90, or their automated print farm. And i think after spending few days on formnext talking with dozens of people, watching hundreds machines, i think that general quality is quite impressive from the Prusa side, and use of libre software is a huge advantage for those who wants to use their printer and own their printer, one could spot many fancy youtubers crowding around prusa site, also checking stuff there. And to add my own experience having since a year three Prusa machines, in a printing time around 130 days i printed so far around 150kg of PETG mechanical parts, with some minor issues i could handle mostly by myself, and on the beginning with the help of community here on the forum, and with prusa support, which is extremely helpful. On one mini i have, i changed only once nozzle and two times ptfe tube in the first 47kg of PETG. And sometimes I print larger parts that i assemble into one object from prints on several printers. And i can repeat that process multiple times in a series... So the point is that in the long run they are extremely reliable machines, with best software on the market, and that's all.

Posted by: @tsamisa

I'm opening a topic that i always said i wouldn't touch. 😞 

First to clarify that i was and am until now a prusa customer. Mk3 to S to S+ - added bontech, mmu2, SL/CW1 to SLS1, XL5th first day preorder. I never owned or am affiliated in any way with bambu labs. And i spend a bit of money to similar stuff like xcarve, xtool, genmitsu so i do go around doing some market research about this stuff

Recently a friend of mine wanted an advice about his first 3d printer. The comparison was between Prusa Core one assembled (for 1350) and BLabs P1S AMS combo for 800E. Honestly i could find anything solid to justify buying a prusa.

Lets skip the speed and print quality since im fairly sure that he cant go wrong with either in that part

Features: BL comes , amongst others, with a camera and multicolor system thats proven to work extremely well. From what ive read anyway. My own opinion was limited to mmu2s which was .. terrible PITA and after a lot of mods went to OKish. But i clarified that mmu3 has positive opinions. And of course adds 400E to the budget. Also BL has a carbon filter to the enclosure while PC sais that is optional.

OpenSource and reprap. Lets be honest here. The reprap approach and the ability to print various parts of the printer it became very limited to prusa. Not a bad thing  but a fact. And even some parts you have to print them in nylon due to the enclosures. The opensource doesnt say much if what you actually want is a good tool and not to tinker with software.

Upgradability. He saw the price and asked that since it costs 640 E to go from the late MK3s+ to MK4 and 490 60 Core one how is any combination of the above or as standalones better that a brand new p1s WITH AMS for 800E. I smiled and said .. its an option. He replied ... is silly. I disagreed but could say more.

Parts. Come on Prusa. I took a look (first time) to how much it costs for a nozzle for a BL. BL puts a price of 17 E to a hardened steel hotend and 37E to the complete set including fan , thermistor and heater. Prusa is 22 for brass and 55E (again brass) respectively.

I live in Europe. BL gives Free shipping for purchases above 120E. Prusa just adds up with weight.

I don't care if they are made in china since prusa , "probably" imports electronic components from there too and before 2023 i dont know who their pcb and electronics manufacturer was. I have a japanese car. im not going to be picky about my printer. And im sure a lot of other people

Finally again the cost. Come on man 800 vs 1750. This is more than twice the price.

Im HONESTLY NOT trying to promote bambu labs. Im trully trying to find a SOLID reason to advice someone to buy prusa. I highlighted the "you can print parts of your printer" -as much as this is limited as i said before, the bed leveling which i love on my XL, the huge customer base, excellent slicer and workflow  etc. I was honest about the support and said that whenever the problem was solvable by the chat or a replacement was needed the approach was excellent but if you where redirected to email was rather patience tempering.I didnt answer about support on BL because i dont know.

I LOVE my XL. Even if at the start was frustrated with various , rather small problems. And still are about some things. But if multimaterial is not your thing im trully struggling to find a reason to advice someone pro-prusa.

AGAIN im not BL sales agent  or own anything else than prusa for 3d printing.

Any thoughts on the above?

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I am starting to use Orca slicer instead of PrusaSlicer, and it works pretty well.  BL has committed to having a Plug-in for OrcaSlicer to work with their new firmware.  We will see.

Right now, I am trying to work the bugs out of my XL and MK4.  I am running an older firmware with Octoprint, and they are working OK.  Prusa should have bought Octoprint instead of TRYING to roll their own.  I have learned that software is NOT Prusa's forte, and now I am questioning their hardware design as well.

I will be looking for a third printer, and it will NOT be a Prusa.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Posted by: @captain-fluffy

Don't be surprised if BL implements a "subscription" business model. Given the closed nature of their system I would not become a customer. But that is just my 2 cents.

Yes, in view of the firmware restrictions Bambu Lab recently announced under the guise of "security improvements", the introduction of a subscription seems a likely move. It would still be possible to use the printers without a subscription, but convenience and "power" features will only be available to subscribers. It wuold still be possible to use 3rd party filaments, but Bambu may try to set the usability even further apart from the RFID-enabled Bambu filaments.

 Even in the second blog post, where Bambu's CEO aimed to do some damage control regarding the firmware update, it's interesting what he did not write. E.g. he stated that "It's false that a subscription will be required to use your Bambu printer".  That's different from "We have no plans to introduce a subscription model" -- which he might have written, simply and clearly, but did not...

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Sales of BL are moving towards the commercial policy of (low-end) printers or photocopiers. A rental based on the price of cartridges, or a maintenance contract where the price is proportional to the number of prints made.

I much prefer the Prusa method, and especially the long period over which printers are monitored.

F. from France with the help of deepl.com...

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I have no evidence that BL is moving to a subscription model.  I have a low-cost laser printer (a Brother), and ink jet (Canon), and I could opt for a subscription model for consumables if I want, but don't have too.

I am just concerned that Prusa's quality is slipping, and they can't seem to get their firmware bug free. 

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

A subscription for consumables is totally different from a subscription to simply be able to use the product. 

Consider the shift from selling software to providing it via subscription. Yes, you still may be able to use it without a subscription but it might be with a reduced feature set or performance. 

In the case of a 3D printer they could limit, say, the max speed it can print at if you are not subscribed.

I have no actual evidence that BL is going to implement a subscription model, I'm just going by the general trends I see everywhere I look.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I think this is being blown completely out of proportion here. I do not think BL will introduce any subscription based model at all - more likely they just want to lock things down so you are forced to use their software/hardware combination, with less room for any third party platforms. Basically, they want to keep their pie to themselves without sharing!

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Posted by: @iftibashir

I think this is being blown completely out of proportion here. I do not think BL will introduce any subscription based model at all 

Your guess is as good as mine... Well, I believe my guess is better since it is based on the assumption that companies are greedy. 😉 

Bambu Lab has dabbled with a "Filament Club" model but has given up on that in favour of simple volume discounts. Let's wait and see what else they might try out. But it could well be another year away, after the firmware restrictions announced early this year met so much resistance. I don't think Bambu Lab would want to spoil the introduction of their upcoming new printer with controversial news about a change in business model, and they certainly won't want to spoil the Black Friday/Christmas business later in the year.  

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Prusa should have bought Octoprint instead of TRYING to roll their own.

How would they go about buying Octoprint? Octoprint is open source. Forking would be a better option (like they did for Slic3r and Marlin).