Run out sensor can’t work.  

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

Sadly it’s not just the XL that has this issue. It causes me an issue as well with spools in the AMS of my Bambu Lab printer. 

I wonder if they can update the firmware to have the nextruder detect that there’s a change in the filament feed and use that to pause the print  

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

And then some filament brands are just fine, like Overture. I suppose it depends upon whether the company is customer-experience focused or not. I quit purchasing Prusament because of this spool-end problem.

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

Hum, that is good to know. I will pay attention to my rolls' filament ends. well if I get my two tools to work one day!

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

Uhhh… no.

The run out sensor is a metal ball pressed against the filament with a spring. No filament and the ball is pushed into a contact and the circuit is closed. The problem can’t be solved via fw.

It was learned years ago that run out sensors were optimally the kind that senses movement not presence. E.g. a wheel turned by the filament that’s coupled to an optical sensor. Prusa, as a hubris filled org ignored what was a design standard for the open source community.

RE:

Folks, we are debating something which has a clear answer:

On my Mini+ with filament sensor, when the printer read he's the end of a spool, the sensor detects the end. It then:

1. Pauses printing
2. Unloads the filament
3. Allows you to load in the next spool and confirm flow through the parked nozzle.
4. Resumes printing.

This works, I do it all of the time.

The problem is that some filament manufacturers, like Prusa, are insensitive too this and they put a sharp kink in the end of the filament, locking it to the spool. Then, the feeder strips on the filament and it cannot pull through to the end. The filament sensor doesn't work when printing with Prusament or other filaments that kink the ends.

This is the main reason that I switched from Prusa Prusament to Overture filament. Overture filaments feed nicely at the very end, the sensor works, and I can swap spools.

The run-out sensor works perfectly.

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

Well David at least your run out sensor worked for you!
From my stand point my requirements for materials are a function of the use case and NOT a constraint designed into the hw because of a hubris filled ”Engineer”. As I stated before, the open source community learned years ago that run out sensors need to sense filament movement and not presence. Prusa chose to ignore this as they have ignored many other things.

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

Prusa chose to ignore this as they have ignored many other things.

Everything costs money. Consumers are value driven. If the benefit of a “perfect” solution is not worth the extra cost then it is a bad product choice. As a general rule, $1 of extra product cost translates to $3 to $10 of increased retail price.

Personally, I am not willing to pay more for a “perfect” sensor only so that I can use Prusa’s filament which seems to have been poorly designed by having a kink that clasps the end to their spools.

Instead, I buy cheaper Overture filament which works perfectly with Prusa’s filament run-out sensor.

The best design is different for a consumer than for a space launch vehicle.

I think Prusa has overall done a good job of maximizing value in their designs. (At least until recently.)

RE:

I'd very much like to get a working sensor on a 3000$ printer, don't care about the measuring principle or whether it costs them 10$ more to build. Thanks very much.

I actually have one on my super crappy Ender3 that has been working every single time with every filament I threw at it, for 3 years. But this is Prusa.

Edit: The missing functionality is supposed to be mended in a later firmware update using realtime data from the load cell (clogs or snagged filament should change the reading). Source: Some video or Prusa Live I've seen a while ago. If and when this will really happen, who knows.

RE:

Prusa kinks the end of the filament to their spools such that Hercules couldn’t pull the end out. Perhaps fixing that would be the best starting point for Prusa.

I switched to Overture filament because the roll ends are sensed by my Prusa.

As for the $3000 printer, my XL died shortly after arriving. I think they have bigger issues than designing an expensive roll end sensor that is designed to overcome their poor roll-end practices.

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

So Dave…

You’re ok having a hw design that forces you to only use a specific producers filament. If you’re happy with that, fine. That’s how folks operate with Stratasys machines… as well as many other high end industrial 3d printers. You have to ride in their bus. They control all the factors of a 3d printing process to ensure an optimal output. But that’s not the case here! Prusa has designed their way into the opposite situation and inadvertently force its user customers to purchase another vendors materials. 
Regardless, I for one refuse to operate like that. I get clients with specific needs that are only met with materials that are sometimes atypical such as PC or Nylon and for these I go to where I know the formulations will meet the need. Most of Prusa’s users are likely in a similar boat. They want to buy the materials that they want and not be constrained by a hw design choice.
It is real interesting how Prusa has kept you as a loyal advocate even though your experience with the XL was a fail. Thanks to you I am realizing that Prusa’s greatest strength as a company is their ability to maintain this loyalty even after what had to be a very negative experience. 

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

It is real interesting how Prusa has kept you as a loyal advocate even though your experience with the XL was a fail. Thanks to you I am realizing that Prusa’s greatest strength as a company is their ability to maintain this loyalty even after what had to be a very negative experience. 

You have lept to a conclusion. (Confirmation bias?)

I am returning my XL and have requested a refund. In the spring I will make a new decision about my next printer. It could be the XL, but I am seriously considering the Bambulabs X1C Carbon as it seems it will meet my needs.

Im both loyal to Prusa but also tired of everything being late and only 80% complete. I mean Prusa well but am considering jumping ship.

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

If I had your experience and had to send the printer back there’s no way I would feel any loyalty to them at all and I would not trust them six months or a year from now. For that matter…

My XL 5 even with the issues I have had to overcome thanks to Prusa selling an Unpolished product, prints absolutely brilliantly! Super fast, super print quality… outstanding output. MM print after print is coming out perfectly and extremely quickly. Regardless, I still feel zero loyalty to Prusa! I have had well over a 2 dozen different 3d printers from different companies over the past 12 years or so and I feel ZERO loyalty to all of them! I don’t care who made the 3d Printer, if it is a POS or even just half baked I hold the producer responsible and I report it as such publicly on my podcast with zero regard for any kind of loyalty! When the product meets its producers promises we applaud them if not we boo them regardless of who they are.

Yet you state publicly that you would give them another chance even after sending the machine back. That’s real interesting, because I see this in other people’s posts as well. I find this amazing especially given that we’ve tested a fully upgraded mkiii costing over $1k against a $64 Anycubic and got the exact same results. Good luck with your next machine!

RE: Run out sensor can’t work.

Yet you state publicly that you would give them another chance even after sending the machine back.

I'm not a grudge holder. Good people and good companies make bad decisions and products sometimes. The great companies fix those problems.

Of course I am very disappointed that my XL5 completely died. After waiting two years and spending $4,500 it's sad. But I keep it in perspective.

Prusa has so-far been good about processing the return/refund (a sign of a quality company) and I expect that they will [evenrually] get the XL5 machines to work consistently and reliably, perhaps by this spring.

I am off now, so I don't need to purchase a replacement printer until spring. Time is on my side. I can buy an XL then, or I can buy a Bambu X1c or P1S. I'll see how the reputations are at that time. Perhaps Bambu will have stumbled, or perhaps the Prusa XL5 will have a great reputation.

Prusa has received a "wake up call" from Bambu Perhaps they will tackle their lethargy and stop treating their customers with ambivalence. I would love for them to stop using cop-out terms such as "Alpha" and "Beta" and to start delivering what they promise. Frankly, the Mk4 was a giant step in the right direction: They announced it and it delivered, and it worked. Bravo!