Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.  

I suspect you may have discovered why ... try bypassing the side sensor and delivery tube and feed directly to the toolhead from above.

Cheerio,

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @diem

I suspect you may have discovered why ... try bypassing the side sensor and delivery tube and feed directly to the toolhead from above.

Cheerio,

I have not figured out why, but there is a weird noise coming from the side sensor area. Is there something in that sensor assembly that need modified? Is this a common problem? I just put the new enclosure on the setup as well so that was a difference in this spool and the previous I printed of the same filament with no issues. The filament seems to feed super smooth by hand and doesn't feel bound anywhere. But it does squeak now by the side sensor. 

Thank you for your reply! I appreciate your time. 

.

I have not figured out why, but there is a weird noise coming from the side sensor area.

Because prints fail - and the noises suggest surface friction.

Cheerio,

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

After trying to print several times with even smooth PTEG filament, it still fails. Opening the tube at the nextruder head and pulling on the filament, there is a HUGE amount of resistance coming from the spool end, as you said, lots of friction. I've now bypassed the filament sensor on the spool end by removing the circuit board and putting a zip tie to hold the balls down. It seems much easier to feed now. We will see if I can make this 22 hr print work finally. Now I just need to figure out how to disable that sensor so I can just take it off. I think I read somewhere it's possible in the software I just need to figure out where. I'll search for that when I get some time unless someone has a link directly to it. Thanks all. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Removed the 2kg spools and put back on 1kg spools. Still won't print. It prints on the left side of the bed fine. Once it gets to the right hand side of the bed, it strips the filament out. I've moved the head over there and the filament feeds just fine to head. Taking the tube out of the extruder, it pulls easy and smooth. 

Not sure what the hell to think at this point. All I know is that out production floor is waiting on parts and I can't produce a thing with the XL now. The Mk3 is still going though. Disappointment is over taking me. 

Anyone got any more ideas on what I'm not doing correctly? It just started this crap out of the blue after I put the XL enclosure on. I don't see any pinch points in the tubing. Maybe I'll try adjusting the roll higher on the side of the machine. 

RE:

I just noticed something else that might contribute. When I set up the spool holders and side mounted filament sensor, I put the sensor and the feed thru block at the top. I moved it down to the center and flipped the top spool over. Maybe that will help. Old on left, new config on right. It never occured to me the bind I could be causing. 

I've had three of these in a row now. Mabye it will make it past this point this time. I can't seem to make it past layer 1 of each print before the filament drive wheels strip out the filament and it stops feeding. Any help would be much appreciated!!!

For the record, this issue is no longer about ESD material, it's about all PETG material. And I'm using Prusament filament, brand new spools, just opened. What you see in the picture above is some prusament spooled over to a 3dextch spool because I wanted to try 1 kg spools and all I have of the orange are 2 kg spools. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Nope. Same thing again. I'm at my wits end with this thing now. I'm going to re slice it with just the one part in the location that is actually printes the first layer and then I'll see if I can make it through one print. It's like it gets to that area of the bed and it locks up the filament. I can't find any restriction in the feed tubes. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

If the issue is 'something' related to the side sensors you can just turn them off through the LCD's menu and then completely get rid of them. Just feed directly into the tube that goes to the extruders.

If the issue is the spools not spinning on the mounting arm freely enough there are models out there that use ball bearings rollers either on arm or on the table.

There's also that possible issue where the idler arms may have flexed/warped a bit and stop doing their job. Could look into that.

Maybe even a heatcreep issue? I've only experienced it with PLA but your symptoms sound basically the same.

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Thank you for the reply, BaconFase. I was fighting the feed issue but honestly, I think the gcode was the issue. I never did watch the heat but I'm thinking maybe the nozzle temperature was dropped for some reason and it just got to solid to feed around that part of the model. I resliced the part and I've printed 3 now with zero issues. I will most likely look into the spool holders with bearings though. These 2kg rolls are heavy and I burn through a 1kg roll so quick it's nice to use the big ones. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Had some down-time and made new spool feeders with cheap bearings from Amazon. Adapters are stepped to work with all the different brands of filament we use. Turned out great. Filament now feeds smooth as a baby's butt. In other news...the drive belt shredded...but at least the filament feeds smoother now. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Hello,

I recently purchased an XL to print fixture parts here at work.  I also have been using 3DXTech ESD-PETG for several years on another brand of printer.  I was expecting it to go well here too.  Did you finally get your printing failure issue resolved?  In one of your posts you had mentioned a problem with the g-code.  After re-slicing, your parts seemed to go better.   

I was fighting the feed issue but honestly, I think the gcode was the issue. I never did watch the heat but I'm thinking maybe the nozzle temperature was dropped for some reason and it just got to solid to feed around that part of the model. I resliced the part and I've printed 3 now with zero issues.

What settings did you use to make it work?  I run my nozzle temp at 250c and the bed at 90c and I use a 0.4mm nozzle.  For preheat do you use the default PETG setting or have you created a custom setting for the ESD material?  Did you make any changes to speed?  I would also be interested in any hardware changes you have made too. I see you made a new spool holder with bearings.  Has this been helpful?  Finally, have you tried the ESD PLA?  any luck there? 

Thank you.  

RE:

Posted by: @peter-k13

Hello,

I recently purchased an XL to print fixture parts here at work.  I also have been using 3DXTech ESD-PETG for several years on another brand of printer.  I was expecting it to go well here too.  Did you finally get your printing failure issue resolved?  In one of your posts you had mentioned a problem with the g-code.  After re-slicing, your parts seemed to go better.   

I was fighting the feed issue but honestly, I think the gcode was the issue. I never did watch the heat but I'm thinking maybe the nozzle temperature was dropped for some reason and it just got to solid to feed around that part of the model. I resliced the part and I've printed 3 now with zero issues.

What settings did you use to make it work?  I run my nozzle temp at 250c and the bed at 90c and I use a 0.4mm nozzle.  For preheat do you use the default PETG setting or have you created a custom setting for the ESD material?  Did you make any changes to speed?  I would also be interested in any hardware changes you have made too. I see you made a new spool holder with bearings.  Has this been helpful?  Finally, have you tried the ESD PLA?  any luck there? 

Thank you.  

 

Hey, Peter-k13. I have not been able to make it work yet. At first, I blamed it on the machine not being able to force the filament though the nozzle. I put bearings on the spool holders, I by-passed the side filament sensors, and have moved the feed tubes numerous times to try to reduce any drag to the feeder. None of this helped. I've cleaned the drive gear and the head filament sensor to rid of debris. I've tightened the drive gear pressure lever. Nothing helps. 

I just ordered two of the hardened nozzles. I honestly think the ESD is so abrasive that it's damaging the inside of the nozzles somehow. I wish I had a way to split one and inspect but I don't. Also, being the novice that I am compared to probably most on this forum, I'm using the canned PETG settings that Prusa Slicer loads. I really haven't looked into what the nozzle temps are and haven't tried adjusting them or the feed speed. Typically with thing I mess with, they are never the same, so I try to just leave them be. However, I think bumping the nozzle temp maybe 10 degrees might help but it's just a hunch. 

I have not tried the PLA. It's so brittle compared to the PETG that I'm not sure the production floor would like things printed out of it. Most of the things I print are guides, fixtures and aids to assemble the things we build. The PETG works great for almost everything we do. And maybe call it stubborn since once something works I will take it to my grave since I don't like change. 

Once the nozzles get here in a week or so, I'll try adjusting the temps maybe a bit and see what it does. Typically, putting a new brass nozzle in will allow the printer to run several parts before it craps out. After that, it will get worse and worse. That's why I think it is a "wear" issue, I just have no proof. I went through 5 brass nozzles and got tired of buying new ones. I did figure out how to clear the clogged ones with a long 5/32" drill bit but I'm also sure that doesn't help the smooth geometry inside the nozzle once I run a bit down in it. On the flip side, even after I drill one out, it works for PETG just fine and the prints are nice, so I can at least not throw away 5 brass nozzles. 

As far as the bearings go, I'm trying to run 2Kg spools now since I can use up a 1Kg or 750g pretty fast. I get tired of swapping spools. Now, maybe that allows the filament to stay in the open too long and moisture becomes an issue. Maybe the extra weight of the pull hurts the head and hurts the feed. Don't know I put the bearings on them to allow the larger spools to feed just like the smaller ones. It works great thus far. I'm expecting a new bench for my XL and my Mk3S+ any day now. Once I get it, I'll make some changes that will help both printers. I have ideas but haven't put them on paper yet. 

RE:

Hello 4x4 Dually, 

I will be interested to hear how the hardened nozzle works for you.  I will probably order one as well. 

When clearing the clog in the brass nozzle I have been successful in running nylon through the hot end. Specifically, I use Coex Nylex.  The temp range is 245-295 C, so I set the Load preset to PA (285 C), and start to load it.  If it has trouble, I use the acupuncture needle to free up the clog and continue loading until it runs completely clean of any black filament.  I have not had to remove or replace the nozzle yet.   After clearing, my PLA & PETG materials have run fine.  

I would like to use my Poly Box ( https://us.polymaker.com/ ) with an Eva-Dry Dehumidifier ( https://www.eva-dry.com ) inside.  The PolyBox is a dry storage box that can hold two 1K spools or on 3K spool.  The spools rest on bearings so they turn very smooth and easy. This has worked great on my other printer to keep my filament dry.  Unfortunately, this setup would add more tubing to the system. 

From your pictures it looks like you repositioned the filament sensor lower on the side of the printer.  It looks like the wires are not long enough to do so.  Did you just disconnect it in order to move it?  

Thanks,

Peter

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Hi 4x4dually, 

I found a solution that is working for me.  It turns out to be a friction problem.  

I found the inside diameter of the feed tubing is too small along with the bends in the routed tubing that are too tight, causing too much friction.  The filament sensor is another source of friction because it relies on a spring-loaded ball that rolls against the filament.  The ESD material is a little rougher in texture compared to PLA & regular PETG, so these factors added up to cause the problem.   To remedy the this, I’ve bypassed the side filament sensor and replaced the 2.5mm ID feed tubing with a larger 3.1mm ID tubing.  You will see from my attached pictures that I am feeding directly from my Poly Box to the print head using the new tubing with a gentle curve.  I've made three 1.5 hour parts and two 5 hour parts with good success.    I've tried longer tubing routed through the back and reconnecting to the sensor.  The sensor was still too much friction.  I will be experimenting more to see if I can it to work.  I still need to assemble the printer cover so I want to get this working properly.  

I hope this helps you.  Let me know if you have found any more helpful solutions.  

Regards,

Peter

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @peter-k13

From your pictures it looks like you repositioned the filament sensor lower on the side of the printer.  It looks like the wires are not long enough to do so.  Did you just disconnect it in order to move it?  

 

I rotated it at first so it fed more linear from both spools. Fed the top spool from the bottom and the bottom spool from the top. That didn't help so I turn it off on the control panel and too the sensor off. It really sucks if friction is what's causing this issue. It really does feed super smooth, and the drive wheel "should" have zero issue pulling it off the spools. 

I have a new table coming for my two printers. When it gets here, I will most likely do something like you did and feed the filament from overhead directly down into the print heads. Where did you source your larger feed tube and the connectors that the ends push into?

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

I honestly think you'll find your solution to be a false positive like I did. I'm willing to bet that after more printing you'll find that it will do the same thing no matter what you do with the spools. That is what I've experienced. I truely think it is wearing out the inside of the nozzles or the nozzles are baking the filament somehow. The only thing that gives mine immediate relief is a new nozzle and that's with changing nothing else. I still can't explain it. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Hi 4x4dually,

So far, I have successfully printed one part at 6h 10m, another at 5h 17m and a third at 1h 30m using this configuration.  I'm hoping this is not a false positive.  I'll let you know if I get a failure due to the nozzle. 

In regard to the tubing, I pulled the feed tubing from my Raise3D Pro2 printer.  The OD of the tubing is the same, (4.0mm), so I did not need to change the push in connectors. The wall thickness is thinner so you may have to watch for kinking over time.  But this has not been an issue on the old machine.  I am going to buy longer lengths of the 3.1mm ID tubing but I am still researching good sources.  One that has been recommended is Capricorn Premium Bowden Tubing.  They have Filament Guide (Reverse Bowden) Tubing with 3.0mm ID and 4.0mm OD dimensions.  https://www.captubes.com/shop/#!/Filament-Guide-Reverse-Bowden-4-Meter/p/454958695. I may give this a try.    

I bought the XL printer because after 6000 hours on the Raise3D I was having major problems printing.  Most of the material run on that machine was the 3DXTech ESD PETG.  I have a 7-year-old Prusa i3 MK2S that still runs like clockwork.  I'm hoping for the same here.  

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

I'll add that I also run the 3mm id tubing and skip the side filament sensors.  I've run this way from day 1 because I print directly from an electronic drybox and the filament run is much longer than in the stock setup.  So in order to minimize resistance I used the larger 3mm id tubing, all filament spools run on bearings, and I bypassed the side sensors, however the filament pretty much follows the same path as it did stock.  Notice in my pictures that I don't try to restrict where the tubes are, and that's on purpose.  I let the tubes flex wherever they want to in order to minimize drag.

The only downside to skipping the side sensors is that when the filament runs out you need to disconnect the tubing from the print head to get the small unused piece out, but that's super easy since the fittings are push to connect. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @peter-k13

I bought the XL printer because after 6000 hours on the Raise3D I was having major problems printing.  Most of the material run on that machine was the 3DXTech ESD PETG.  I have a 7-year-old Prusa i3 MK2S that still runs like clockwork.  I'm hoping for the same here.  

Same. I've ran a total of over 20 3DXtech 750g spools of ESD PETG through my Mk3S+ since I got it and have never had the issues I'm having with the XL. I sent the .3MF and .gcode to Prusa support but I honestly doubt they have time to load some up in a machine and figure out my problem. I can't imagine how many people they have contacting thing daily and I'm certain I'm not at the top of anyone's list.