Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
 
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Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL  

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SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

why did you return it for refund and not request a replacement?

When my place in queue can up to order the machine I was in contact with support. I asked them to hold the order until I returned from overseas, which they agreed to do.

But the machine shipped and arrived anyway. It arrived just before I left. So I set it up and tested it and at that time learned it was a dud.

I contacted Support and asked for help when the machine died. The Level 1 guy knew nothing about the XL. The Level 2 support never contacted me in the following week, so as I ran out of time I gave up.

At this point there was no time to replace it and test the replacement, so I asked Customer Service for a refund.

This wasn’t a disaster as my plan had been to own three of the XL5s. I had two more queue slots that would soon be at the top of the queue.

So I sent the machine back and am now in Asia for a few months.

This is why I have the choice of whether to go Prusa XL: I have two more pre-orders now at the top of the queue.

And, the failure of Lever 1 support not knowing the machine and then Level 2 failing to contact me simply reinforced my feeling that the XL was a deeply troubled product.

Posted : 01/12/2023 11:15 pm
DarkTeck
(@darkteck)
Trusted Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

@SeattleDavid I can tell you if your thinking about the Bambu instead of your XL and your ook with the size difference DO IT , after 3 months of back and forth over 60 hours on Prusa support , a machine swap , remounting docks , recalibrating dozens of times , over 10 rolls of filament with failed prints , etc. etc. my XL 2 tool unit is realistically only a 1 tool unit . it can NOT successfully pull off a multi color piece with out an problem . I finally fixed my multi color issue ............. i bought a Bambu X1C with AMS . Guess what FIRST Multi print went perfectly no problem ! in fact i've done 7 pieces varying sizes all printed perfectly on a machine that was a 3rd the price of the XL .

Yes people will say machine size ( i get it ) which is the ONLY and i mean ONLY reason i am i keeping the XL as a large single tool machine. I haven't gotten 1 multi color piece off my XL ( for 3 months now ) that matched the quality of the Bambu . Every single XL print is riddled with atrocious layering lines on the sections of the print that has multi colors inter twined. Yes i have even tried the bump stop method and it had done nothing and support has completely stopped even responding to me on email anymore ( which is a shame because they normally are pretty damn good ) The XL in my experience has a ton of issues that they are still working on and trying to resolve while everyone in the field are working out the bugs for them .   

I love my XL as a single tool unit and i have cancelled my other 2 pre-orders i had for 5 tool units and i have given up on Prusa support as they have given up on my machine. I can not recommend it as multi tool unit but as a single tool unit its worth it all the way for the size and speed 

Posted : 02/12/2023 3:25 am
Tobycwood
(@tobycwood)
Estimable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

We really should not be surprised that the experiences are so mixed. When a complex product goes out the door without any form of system verification that it actually works per specific criteria this is what happens. The real problem here is the XL ships with its extruders in separate boxes and, as far as I could see on the unit that I got, it never had extruders attached until I put them on. As such each XL unit is not actually operated until its end user tries it. That is not common practice for producers of complex tools or IT devices. This can easily doom a company since it ruins its reputation. We have to assume Prusa did some kind of component testing, but we really don’t know. However, system level testing is always required. Every ready to print printer I have always included a test print made by the machine I received. Unfortunately, it seems Prusa does not see this as a problem so we can expect them to continue this practice.
This is something each buyer of the XL has to take into account before ordering.

Posted : 02/12/2023 4:25 pm
BillC
(@billc-2)
Active Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

I have both the X1C and a 5 head XL. 

The XL is much faster on multi color prints. The X1C has to purge filament on each color change, while the XL has the new color ready to go. There is also a lot of filament waste with the X1C. The XL is my go-to printer now for multi color printing.

The X1C is a great printer. Fast and elegant. It is a polished machine now that the growing pains are over. I love it for fast printing of single colors or for certain multi color prints that don't have a lot of color changes.

The XL is great with the new firmware and slicer. It has a very bright future ahead of it. My main complaint about it is the resonance noise when it is moving at 45 degrees at certain speeds. It is my noisiest printer.

Posted : 02/12/2023 5:51 pm
Zappes and Acht liked
Asus1357
(@asus1357)
Trusted Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

The time might be accurate for a Bambu unit (due to the single head- swap - unload - load - purge routine) but not even remotely close to the Prusa XL time line. I have seen some people claim 5 seconds other 3-5 seconds. I know from what I can actually see on mine ,it is not even 3 seconds per change. No I did not use a stop watch but I am able to say 1 - Mississippi - 2 Mississippi - 3 Mississippi. While not stop watch accurate darn close. AI is a cute little tool and like any other computer related item of the sort it is only as good as the data it has been fed. Sure it can seemingly learn but only what it has been told.Marketing and bias included to sway those results. I am not an influencer or marketing puppet nor have any financial gain in these personal comments. Like in the old TV quote "just the facts"

Posted : 02/12/2023 7:04 pm
ssill2
(@ssill2)
Noble Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

This right here.   doing soluble supports/interfaces is the reason I got the XL.   solubles kind of worked with the MMU, but basically only with PLA(that's all that was officially supported by prusa and for good reason).  The sheer amount of purge you had to do to ensure that soluble filament didn't end up in your model...    was a lot.   I've done some soluble interface test prints with the XL and I don't know how I ever put up with the mmu in the first place.   Sharing a nozzle between vastly different filaments...... is a kludge.  I don't care how well the bamboo dresses it up, it's wasteful and and depending on which filaments involved you shouldn't even expect it to work.  On the XL, I can print a model in TPU,  use Aquasys 120 as the interface material(which dissolves in water), and then PLA as the primary support material which is more rigid and reliable than trying to print your supports in tpu.  I'd be interested in seeing someone do this on the bamboo.  It was not something I ever even considered possible on the MMU given the need to constantly yank the filament from the extruder, etc.

I was not thrilled without prusa handled the rollout, etc but with all the lastest firmware and slicer updates, it actually works pretty well and  the tool changes are lightning fast.  As someone who spent a lot of time tuning MK3S + MMU2, I've definitely considered the limitations of a single extruder for multiple materials and as I understand it that's how the bamboo works and thus would be mostly hamstrung by the same limitations.   That and the approach the palette took with fusing filament together really are always going to suffer limitations when you have vastly different materials involved.

Posted by: @tobycwood

Who the heck is this Bard person? Probably yet another clueless toober. There are soooo many people who post and youtube who really don’t know what they are yapping about!

Besides the fact that the xl as a toolchanger is SCREAMING fast(compared to the 2 only other Toolchangers available), since it has multiple extruders it can print materials that don’t bond as with pla/PETG where one is used for full contact support which finally gives us clean undersides! Doing this is a real problem for single extruder solutions since you have to fully purge.

Eventually the users of the XL will catch on to doing this and it will become a standard approach for every use case. Think about it… you no longer have to consider overhangs… I.e. we all finally have what the pre open source expensive machines from companies like Stratasys have always had.

Try doing that with an mmu or that Bambu thing and watch how long it will take!

 

Posted : 02/12/2023 10:01 pm
DarkTeck
(@darkteck)
Trusted Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

The biggest issue with my XL is the multi tool usage during printing ( single tool usage 👍 ) . Every time the multi tool is used the models have unacceptable and very noticeable layering lines and shifts . These lines are only visible on the sections of the print that have the multi colors embedded on them . The layering before and the layering afterwards will be fine . I have been back and forth with support , dock reattachments etc … and nothing seems to get rid of it . Never had a reason to hunt out the X1C as we were hoping XL would be our go to for multi color usage and it just hasn’t . Yes I agree completely the X1C uses an absurd amount of filament during the flush and purge and yes it slower print wise during multi color usage …… but no issues with it , the objects come out like they should from day one .

I cant agree more with previous statements that there is NO way the sample print that was on the bed with the machine was printed on THIS machine . The rails and docks had zero install marks on them . The mounting of the docks on the XL is really a bad bad design with that one little screw holding the dock to the rail . The constant vibrations, the docking , the movements , are just trouble . My hopes is at some point they redesign the setup and I can update mine and it will work as intended . It’s even more sad in my opinion that they cant supply proper support for the machine . I have sent dozens of files , videos , logs , codes and 3MFs for them to look at and try to diag . They have no idea why just the same re-install the dock answer over and over ….

Posted : 03/12/2023 5:54 am
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

I have no multicolour print layer lines or shift on my 5 tool head. Some of my finished prints look near injection molded.

 

Posted : 03/12/2023 11:27 am
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

 

Posted by: @seattledavid 

Bard is AI by Google. The quote was a summary of filament changes from web sources. I usually cross-check

Citing Bard AI as a source.  Nothing does 'confidently wrong' quite like AI.

 

According to you, Bard is right 80% of the time...or is it 89% of the time? I don't know as you keep changing your story. Perhaps you have Bard or Chat GPT composing your responses?

 

You responded to another member rationalising the purpose of this thread as putting the query out there "for challenge or concurrence", when a modicum of research would have revealed your AI gathered 'information' to be monumentally incorrect.

 

YGK3D actually did a great comparison of the two on YouTube.

 

And then to go on to call the XL "vaporware". A patently false and misleading statement. It's a real product and, in my experience; mostly delivers as promised with constant FREE improvements coming down the line.

 

I'm old and grizzly enough not to get caught up in hype or to be overly sensitive and I'm not here to defend Prusa; but I've also had enough of the poorly researched and/or blatantly false information that is constantly being regurgitated around the place.

 

Things like it was delayed 2 years, which you have repeated. Completely false. At the launch, it was said it would be released,in about 12 months, so the end of 2022. It started shipping mid March 2023, so at worst, 3.5 months late.

 

The XL was never targeted at the hobbyist market. It was also made very clear that it isn't a printer for inexperienced users. It's not a toaster and Prusa has never claimed it to be or ever represented it as one.

 

The number of people that have bought one as their first printer is astounding. Watching the countless support cases and complaints flow from these people is maddening.  The flow-on being extended support queue wait times and clogged internet group and forum channels asking the same basic (from an experienced operator's POV) things over and over.

 

Overwhelmingly, the issues come back to user error by way of assembly or operation, not hardware or software issues.

 

And whilst I understand it wasn't your first printer, many of your comments in this and other threads hint at your knowledge and experience level when it comes to 3D printing.

 

The XL has not been without its issues. There have been QC problems as a result of the massive increases in production staff in a short period of time, a mid production revision and XL specific support has taken too long to come up to speed.

 

I'm sorry you had a poor experience with your XL. Was it a lemon? Probably.  Did it fail "catastrophically" as you love telling everyone?  No. That implies it tore itself apart or nearly/actually caught fire.

 

You keep drawing comparisons between the XL and other models from Prusa. The i3 platform has had over 10 years of frequent and generational improvements. The MINI has had over 4 years. The XL single toolhead has had less than 9 months in the market, the 2 tool head around 7 months and the 5 toolhead only around 3 months. The XL is significantly more advanced and more complex than anything before it. Imagine where it will be in 1 year or 5 years?!

 

How quickly people forget or are oblivious to the fact that Bambu was plagued with issues in the X1C/P1P's first year. Banana Bed anyone? Carbon rod wear, parts availability, massive undocumented hardware differences in production units month-on-month, woeful support, AMS issues only resolved via community fixes, etc. You sure as hell don't get 24/7 live chat, or any live chat for that matter; with Bambu.

 

That's before we get into Bambu's repeated theft of Open Sorce and IP, its cloud printing service scraping all of your data, etc. Remember where the founders came from (DJI) and look at what an increasing number of governments have done about their products due to security issues.

 

That said, this thread, along with others you have started and many of your responses; have been nothing but inflammatory despite your protestations that they are not or are not intended to be. They are. And when people rebut or rebuke you, you acuse them of personal attacks.

 

Despite your advanced years with not many remaining, which you feel the need to repeatedly tell us about; it would appear that questionable life choices are something some people do right up to the bitter end. To loosely quote you, things like "hinging so many of your remaining years on the XL" or getting a "special, permanent and expensive countertop installed just for the XL", only to send the printer back for a refund rather than a replacement. 

 

It would appear you have made up your mind regarding the XL. No-one is in the Prusa Forum to hear about the virtues of the offerings from Bambu; so please, please, stop antagonising everyone with this sort of guff or just move on.

Posted : 03/12/2023 2:26 pm
Michael, Georg, jF and 4 people liked
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

Dear IPIND 3D:

You enjoy typos and nit-picks a lot, I can see. For example who cares if Bard is 80% or one typo away at 89%? And I didn’t realize that a complete and total failure of a printer was not catastrophic. I always thought it was funny that a catastrophic failure of a rocket was called by NASA an “Unplanned rapid disassembly”. My printer did not have an unplanned rapid disassembly. Word games.

It is increasingly clear that I am not whoever Prusa’s customers are. I planned to purchase three XL5 printers for my use, I’ll cancel the other two pre-orders. Thanks for helping me make that decision.

I wish Prusa well. I have enjoyed their products in the past. But am not a hacker, or an open source enthusiast, nor do I wear cheerleader tights for any company. I want products that do what they day they will do, I don’t mind paying extra for quality.

Prusa is just no longer (at this time) the value leader nor is their quality the best. Perhaps in the future, let’s hope.

I didn’t know how long in the real world swaps were. I asked Bard and seem to have gotten a wrong answer. But I was diligent enough to come here to verify and learned it was wrong. That would have been a wonderful end. But for whatever reason this forum (eg you) see it necessary to slay me for asking a question. How dare I?

I feel burned over the XL5. The schedule constantly slipped and the product I received was shoddy. Worse was Prusa’s technical support. Then Prusa charged me return shipping and I still had to pay duties for what was their defective machine, not my assembly error (it was a factory assembled unit.) No apologies from Prusa, just a five week wait to get some of my money back.

You know the expression: “Once burned, shame on you. Twice burned, shame on me.” I had a decision to make and didn’t want to be burned twice. Sorry for being extra cautious and somewhat skeptical. But really, couldn’t you have just answered my question and kept to the facts?

What matters is here, now, today. When I return to the U.S. I’m buying a Bambu printer. I have now made up my mind, for the record. You helped.

Bye.

 

Posted : 03/12/2023 3:27 pm
DarkTeck
(@darkteck)
Trusted Member
RE:

@IPIND-3D that is great I only wish my XL unit produced the same results as that with multi color usage . Was your machine a kit or factory assembled ? 

Posted : 03/12/2023 3:29 pm
Tobycwood
(@tobycwood)
Estimable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

Post your issue in the help group in this forum.

i see others with the same, I’d like to look carefully at it and try to help..

Posted : 03/12/2023 3:58 pm
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

 

Posted by: @seattledavid

What matters is here, now, today. When I return to the U.S. I’m buying a Bambu printer. I have now made up my mind, for the record. You helped.

Bye.

 

Good luck with that.

This isn't an airport. There is no need to announce your departure.

Posted : 03/12/2023 8:34 pm
vwyk liked
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
Posted by: @darkteck

@IPIND-3D that is great I only wish my XL unit produced the same results as that with multi color usage . Was your machine a kit or factory assembled ? 

Hey mate,

Create a new thread as @tobycwood suggested and tag me or shoot me a message and I'll respond on your query and help if I can.

This thread isn't the place for it.

Posted : 04/12/2023 10:41 am
MME
 MME
(@mme)
Reputable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

Bard?? Really!!!!🤮🤮

Posted : 05/12/2023 1:54 am
vwyk, Michael, Georg and 1 people liked
Georg
(@georg-4)
Estimable Member
RE:

How bad has world become to ask an AI for printer comparison. You should keep in mind about the exact question you asked this AI. If you ask an AI how long does it take to open a door, the AI does not know if the door is locked or not. So you have to be very specified in asking questions any AI.

But then you did the right thing. You asked here and you have your answer. Don't know why the accepted answer has nothing to do with the topics question. Is it because the accepted answer shares your opinion about the XL printer? Beeing one of the first who buys a product could always be a risk. For the XL the risk was not so high, but there is one. You claimed the support too. I worked 3 years in support for a 3D modeling software. You are always on pressure and when annoying people are calling, then you always have to stay friendly and search together for a solution. Even if the person calls your software a shit peace. What i want to say: Prusa support is doing the best to make you happy and have a great experince with their products. I am not sure but does bambu have support on saturday or even on sunday?  

Nevertheless, you can now buy any other printer you like. No need to buy one from prusa. Take whatever makes you happy. (Really!)

But I suggest not asking any AI what printer you should buy. 😉

Cheers. 🙂

Posted : 05/12/2023 8:02 am
vwyk liked
ByteC
(@bytec)
Eminent Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

Don't know why the accepted answer has nothing to do with the topics question. Is it because the accepted answer shares your opinion about the XL printer?

This.

---

Have an Xl 5T printer here, it performs better than expected, I print mostly multi material (GreenTec Pro, Prusament CF PetG, Filaflex 30D, etc). Sure, there are still glitches here and there, but I'm confident they get fixed (as always).  

 

Posted : 05/12/2023 9:32 am
vwyk
 vwyk
(@vwyk)
Active Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

wow, taking ai generated hallucinations as gospel is crazy. its even worse than random advice on facebook groups.

 

head swaps are only like 3 seconds. if its longer, its probably due to heat management and only adds a few extra seconds.

 

to the other chap with the layering issues, its symptomatic of assembly and calibration issues. id suggest going back to basics to check if the screws are on properly and all the nozzle seals and idlers are seated correctly

Posted : 07/12/2023 9:42 am
Zappes liked
MileHigh3Der
(@milehigh3der)
Honorable Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

Weird thread.  XL is fast, really fast.  Been running PLA for a month.  No problems.  Small sample size.  Running ASA right now on some smaller items, but lots of color changes.  Had one in 15 fail due to a bed delamination.  I’m FAR from a Prusa fanboy, the MMU2 is the spawn of Satan.  I am amazed at how well the XL works.

Posted : 09/12/2023 2:32 am
IPIND 3D liked
Win J.
(@win-j)
Member
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL

Given my experiences over the past year, I swear that Bambu is writing bounty checks for posts putting down Prusa.  There were several Bambu fanbois at ERRF who just stood around and talked smack on how much better the Bambu was.  

Reminds me of the time Michael Dell famously stated (paraphrasing) “Apple should just be shut down and the money returned to the shareholders”.

 

Disclosure.  Owner of a Prusa Mini+, Prusa MK3S+ (with a successful MMU) and a Prusa XL5T.

I have my issues with Bambu.  But to each their own.  I just will not own one.

Posted : 09/12/2023 2:53 am
IPIND 3D liked
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