40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!
 
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40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!  

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jokerit
(@jokerit)
Estimable Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

OK boys, i´ve canceled my XL /5tool order and ordered X1C combo. Now I have  finished more than 20 multicolor prints on X1C and I´m very very satisfied with quality. Printer works excellent. And you can get it less than 2 weeks after ordering. I´m afraid, that PrusaResearch will lost many customers with their method of work.

Posted : 23/10/2023 9:15 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE:

Still not multi-material.  Multicolor, but not multi-material.  

 

After 2 months, my XL is still running strong.  No issues at all.  

Posted by: @seattledavid

I purchased a Bambu X1C

I am considering the same. I purchased and received an XL5. It threw up red-screens when first powered up, after a few hours of printing it could no longer home or probe the bed and customer service escalated to an "XL specialist" that never contacted me. I decided to ask for a refund and am returning the printer.

My plan was to buy a new XL5 in the spring, after [hopefully] the XL5 is fixed and reliable and has all of the features implemented.

However, I am seriously considering purchasing a Babu Labs X1C with AMS instead. I could purchase three X1C with AMS for the price of the XL5! (Or, I may still do this and buy an XL5 in the spring.)

Please post and let us know how the Bambu Lab X1c is working for you. Please.

 

 

This post was modified 6 months ago by cwbullet

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 23/10/2023 10:17 am
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

Still not multi-material.  Multicolor, but not multi-material.  

A distinction without a difference, as far as I am concerned.

Posted : 23/10/2023 11:09 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

Huge difference.  On my XL, I can print PC Blend and TPU on the same print.  

Posted by: @seattledavid

Still not multi-material.  Multicolor, but not multi-material.  

A distinction without a difference, as far as I am concerned.

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 23/10/2023 11:49 am
Chimeric liked
Thejiral
(@thejiral)
Noble Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

For people only interested in multi-colour prints it really doesn't matter but for those who want actual multi-material (flexible + ABS + soluble support) it makes a huge difference. Also the filament efficiency is another matter all on its own for those printing a lot with multiple filaments. Yes, multimaterial is rather niche, the XL is actually a niche product. 

The Bambulabs are not a good alternative for soluble support printing, if anything double extruders are alternatives if its just two materials you need. 

Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4

Posted : 23/10/2023 12:00 pm
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

For people only interested in multi-colour prints it really doesn't matter but for those who want actual multi-material (flexible + ABS + soluble support) it makes a huge difference. Also the filament efficiency is another matter all on its own for those printing a lot with multiple filaments. Yes, multimaterial is rather niche, the XL is actually a niche product. 

The Bambulabs are not a good alternative for soluble support printing, if anything double extruders are alternatives if its just two materials you need. 

1) This is way, way off topic. We're discussing the XL lack of reliability/usability, not soluble supports.

2) If I ever, in my life, have a need for flexible + ABS + soluble support or any multi-material capability I'll change my opinion of the importance of those features. For what I do and need, in six years of 3D printing I haven't had that need. Definitely a niche Prusa can carve out for themselves.

3) There are precisely two benefits of the XL5 over the Bambu Labs machines:

  1. Larger build plate. I can do 4 items that fit on the Mini+ at the same time, for long runs without the need for attention.
  2. Faster material swaps. That 30 second swap difference adds up. (Math: Two swaps per layer, at 0.25mm layers is 8 swaps per mm or 200 swaps per inch of height.  That's ~100 minutes of extra printing time per inch of height where there is color swapping.) This is a significant issue where two (or more) colors run along the Z-Axis.

4) It doesn't matter how the XL5 is "better" if it is a crappy machine that crashes, cannot home, cannot probe the bed, and cannot print anything whatsoever (which is currently my situation.)

5) My experience is one data point. The fact that my machine crashed may or may not be reflective of a broader, more general problem. Part of the discussion here is whether the XL is generally reliable for most people or if there are widespread endemic problems. My opinion is that after waiting two years for my XL5 and having this experience I am not at happy camper. I like Prusa and hope that my experience is unique and the exception, not the rule.

 

Posted : 23/10/2023 12:12 pm
w4ish
(@w4ish)
Active Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

Thank you, SeattleDavid, for your summary.  The XL will be a great machine when you get it working... as will mine.  Maybe the trip from the Czech republic to the Pacific Northwest had something to do with it... (I'm in Port Angeles) Anyway, After the initial disappointment, I'm sure we will see many years of satisfaction.

Posted : 23/10/2023 4:11 pm
Papy_Yosh
(@papy_yosh)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

Well,  it is official I will be getting a new printer. I was contacted by shipping this morning. I am getting ready to get on the chat and see what is the hold now. I hope that one will work.
I am getting the XL primarily for multi-material use not colors. I do agree that Calling the XL so early in the game, not being able to have it out for two years, and rushing it out to not fall behind the competition when it is in beta version doesn't sound like a good move to me. sounds like the alpha firmware release is bringing some better prints.

This post was modified 6 months ago by Papy_Yosh
Posted : 23/10/2023 4:15 pm
ScoutStorm
(@scoutstorm)
Bioluminous
RE:

 

The real-world difference between multi-material and multi-color is not so great a divide other than the complexity of the machine. In my experience, the XL drips and oozes on the non-printing toolhead just as much as any other tool changer or IDEX printer I have seen. Prusa even saw fit to include a little flappy part to keep the filament under somewhat control when parked. So the benefit really is if you truly are printing multi material. Are most people who need actual multi material using tool changing machines that are not inside an enclosure? Probably not. My ancient MakerGear M3-ID is faster and prints better quality than the XL at this point.

PC blend and TPU on the same print seems like a very low likelihood of ever needing. And on the Bambu, you can use special support interface filament for PETG or PLA (though maybe not soluble).

More on point though is the fact that someone here has the unfortunate situation where they have spent $4k+, waited 2 years, only to get a "fully assembled" machine that does not work and without proper support coming from PRUSA. With all those 100s of employees they hire, have they started to outsource their support? I mean, their support has never been stellar in my opinion, but then neither has any other printer manufacturer.

Posted : 24/10/2023 12:00 am
DarkTeck
(@darkteck)
Trusted Member
RE:

sadly I have to report I’m on my replacement XL 2 Tool unit . First machine was a build disaster with lots of build quality issues so the Print quality off of it was truly horrible. I’ll leave that summarized as is , now the second machine, I have here now . I’ve had for a few weeks all be it is working a lot better than the previous machine . I am stuck running in circles with odd layering issues and while using two tools, I get super bad banding & layer shifts . I been working with Support for the last week straight tried recalibrating and rehoming several times check in hardware screws, belt tensions, manual tool calibrations and I still get left with this . This was a quick test print to really show the issue . You can even see if in the wipe tower ……. this is the best it gets too. when i got the MK4 that was literally from the box to the rack and it hasnt stoped printing since day one , dont understand this one

This post was modified 6 months ago by DarkTeck
Posted : 24/10/2023 1:27 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

So sorry for your struggles.  Do you have the GCODE?  I want to try an print it this weekend.  I just have not had the issues you have had.  

Posted by: @darkteck

sadly I have to report I’m on my replacement XL 2 Tool unit . First machine was a build disaster with lots of build quality issues so the Print quality off of it was truly horrible. I’ll leave that summarized as is , now the second machine, I have here now . I’ve had for a few weeks all be it is working a lot better than the previous machine . I am stuck running in circles with odd layering issues and while using two tools, I get super bad banding & layer shifts . I been working with Support for the last week straight tried recalibrating and rehoming several times check in hardware screws, belt tensions, manual tool calibrations and I still get left with this . This was a quick test print to really show the issue . You can even see if in the wipe tower ……. this is the best it gets too. when i got the MK4 that was literally from the box to the rack and it hasnt stoped printing since day one , dont understand this one

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 24/10/2023 3:12 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

Good morning folks, 
I See Papa Yosh is being sent a new printer, and I sincerely hope that his experience with the XL, Improves. 

Unfortunately this thread has also had posts that were insulting and abrasive.  

Please keep the forum polite, if something provokes the 'keyboard warrior' in you, Please take a break, and move on to the next post!

regards Joan 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 24/10/2023 9:35 am
nhand42, burtronix, Georg and 1 people liked
Papy_Yosh
(@papy_yosh)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

quick update.

I have been in contact with shipping. Time will tell. They were able to send me pictures of how to put the puzzle back in the box. I am shipping my XL back and they will cross-ship my XL fully assembled this time. I am really hoping that this is the one that will make me believe in Prusa again.

More to come.

Eric

Posted : 28/10/2023 12:27 am
MME liked
Synthia
(@synthia)
Member
RE: 40 Days with the XL, it is still not working!!! Haven't seen the welcome screen yet!

Motors cross wired? Those are some serious artifacts - I wonder if there is a problem with belt tension? I have seen some Vorons that have had slightly similar defect and it seems like they are attributed to belt tensions, wrong motor wiring or incorrect amperage set in the firmware (like too little amps and the motor skips steps, too many amps and they run really hot).

Posted : 28/10/2023 12:32 am
Tobycwood
(@tobycwood)
Estimable Member
RE:

Watch out. I have found a subtle bug in PS where it retains the settings from previous prints even when the printer preset is changed. Always check the printer setting pull down in the plate view and always start with a preset.

Regarding the post about multi materials not being that big a deal…
Theres a big difference once one realizes that just about every use case can and should use full contact support using a material that does not bond to the object as with PETG and pla. To do it with a single extruder gets real problematic. Once you use it, you quickly make it part of every task flow.
Toolchangers are a serious BFD. Most dont realize it yet, I’d bet the Bambu people are working on one right now. I have found that the XL as a toolchanger is not only unbelievably reliable it’s also incredibly fast.

This post was modified 6 months ago by Tobycwood
Posted : 29/10/2023 7:38 pm
Darkon
(@darkon)
Member
RE:

Glad I read this thread. I placed my deposit within the first hour and have been patiently waiting to finalize my multi-tool order. I had wanted to get a 3 tool XL and possibly add 2 more head later, but now it looks like the only choices are 1, 2, and 5 tool versions, so was trying to decide between 2 and 5 tool. Decided to check the forums to help decide and am now thinking I should just wait until they've really shaken out the bugs in in the base model and multi-tool version.

I don't NEED the XL, but I definitely want it. But I want something that's going to be rock solid and predictable when I get it, not something that may require a lot of time/effort to address some of the issues I'm hearing about. However unlikely these issues are, I'm likely to be one of those who runs into them...that's just my luck and I know it.  

I'm still on the fence with ordering before the deadline to be considered "preorder"...need to do more research I think. 

This post was modified 6 months ago by Darkon
Posted : 02/11/2023 1:54 am
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