Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06  

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Now, I will say something very "trolling"..... 😎 

When I print in "single material", and I need to swap from PLA to PETG or back to PLA for a new print, I normally use the special high cost white cleaning filament, that ensure a perfect nozzle cleaning and let me switch easily between the different filaments temperature.

It is a while that I am thinking to use it loaded on the MMU in multicolour mode. But currently is not possible.

It would require a new version of Dribbling.

That would mean:

1. - Having Dribbling to recognize a NEW type of filament in addition to PLA, ABS, PETG:  CLEAN
2. - After Material filament unload, load always the CLEAN filament
3. - Extrude the correct quantity to clean the nozzle (in order to have perfect tone)
4. - Unload the cleaning filament
5. - Set the new temperature.
6. - Load the next color filament
7. - Extrude the correct quantity of filament to eject all the clean material from the nozzle on the cleaning tower

ISSUES:

• From what I notice, that material is not printable. I think it has no adhesion, so it can't be used on the wipe tower.
• A solution could be to invent an ingenious device waste add on to install on side-border of the print to collect the full extruded filament.

Currently is just an idea, far to be put in practice, but I am thinking on it. 😉 

Regards.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

@antimix

Let's troll then 🙂

Create a tower that can contain the clean waste produced.

The clean filament is not so useful if you can manage temp correctly.

I think the main point is the soluble interfaces. PVA is a low temp that has very small temp tolerance. So if max allowed pva temp is below of the new filament melting point, for sure you would need a different filament in between, so it is a good idea to investigate.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Posted by: @antimix

ISSUES:

• A solution could be to invent an ingenious device waste add on to install on side-border of the print to collect the full extruded filament.

Purge Mech

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

@richard-l

WOW 😍 . Very nice device. In my opinion is the simplest and smarter aver seen till now. Probably I will buy one to test it.

I have seen that it does not require to change to the PrusaSlicer code, since the gcode to drive the device can simply be added in the configuration section without changes on the program sources.

The only concern is the 1m,36s required for a single color change. I should measure how long Dribbling takes now to do a whole purge tower cycle. I really don't remember, but may be around the same time.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Hello all,

I am back working on Dribbling V.B01

I have already added the manufacturer specifications to the filament, low and high temperature, and the Dribbling temperature for tip shaping.
Now I am reviewing the logic. The Filament change is in two code parts. One just shapes and extracts, and the other purges the colour.
Now I will need to change both two.

In the shape part:

1-  Start the movements, and set the dribbling_temp without waiting (verify that works without waiting)
2- Dribbling to shape the filament  (it should be at the specific dribbling temp)
3- Issue the UNLOAD command. (This because it it fails, and we have changed the nozzle temperature, we either burn the plastic or clog the nozzle. So we should be sure it worked before altering the temperature.

The next logic is in a different part of PrusaSlicer code than the previous.

Basically if the next material type is DIFFERENT than the current then:
     we need to find the COMMON temperature range between the two filaments
          L1° |---------------------------ccccccccccc| H1°  << Filament 1
                                                   L2°|ccccccccccc-----------------------| H2° << Filament 2
                                                          |  common°   | << we may safely set in this range

     but it may exist a worst case where there is no common temp range:
              L1° |------------------- |H1°                   << Filament 1
                                                                        L2°|-------------------------------| H2° << Filament 2
                                                    |????????????|  << we can not set here
             or the filament 2 will jam in the nozzle, we will need to set at least at L2°

        Once set the common temp we can start cleaning and  PURGING THE OLD COLOUR
       we will purge residual PLA or ABS reasonably at around 230...and it should be fine.
        At the end of purge, set the temperature to the real print temperature of the new filament NO WAIT
        We could wait for the new temp but we could save time not waiting.

otherwise if the material is the SAME, we just set the next printing temperature.

I hope this will cover all the situation. I still need to understand how to be "aware" of the previous and next filament parameters at the same time, because I have the feeling that the PrusaSlice code handle just "ONE" current filament, and it has no idea of the previous or next filament once he switches.
I will inform you on the progresses.

Regards

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Posted by: @antimix

Hello all,

I am back working on Dribbling V.B01

I have already added the manufacturer specifications to the filament, low and high temperature, and the Dribbling temperature for tip shaping.
Now I am reviewing the logic. The Filament change is in two code parts. One just shapes and extracts, and the other purges the colour.
Now I will need to change both two.

In the shape part:

1-  Start the movements, and set the dribbling_temp without waiting (verify that works without waiting)
2- Dribbling to shape the filament  (it should be at the specific dribbling temp)
3- Issue the UNLOAD command. (This because it it fails, and we have changed the nozzle temperature, we either burn the plastic or clog the nozzle. So we should be sure it worked before altering the temperature.

The next logic is in a different part of PrusaSlicer code than the previous.

Basically if the next material type is DIFFERENT than the current then:
     we need to find the COMMON temperature range between the two filaments
          L1° |---------------------------ccccccccccc| H1°  << Filament 1
                                                   L2°|ccccccccccc-----------------------| H2° << Filament 2
                                                          |  common°   | << we may safely set in this range

     but it may exist a worst case where there is no common temp range:
              L1° |------------------- |H1°                   << Filament 1
                                                                        L2°|-------------------------------| H2° << Filament 2
                                                    |????????????|  << we can not set here
             or the filament 2 will jam in the nozzle, we will need to set at least at L2°

        Once set the common temp we can start cleaning and  PURGING THE OLD COLOUR
       we will purge residual PLA or ABS reasonably at around 230...and it should be fine.
        At the end of purge, set the temperature to the real print temperature of the new filament NO WAIT
        We could wait for the new temp but we could save time not waiting.

otherwise if the material is the SAME, we just set the next printing temperature.

I hope this will cover all the situation. I still need to understand how to be "aware" of the previous and next filament parameters at the same time, because I have the feeling that the PrusaSlice code handle just "ONE" current filament, and it has no idea of the previous or next filament once he switches.
I will inform you on the progresses.

Regards

 

Previous extruder ID and current extruder ID should be available during the toolchange C++ functions. They definitely were when I was poking around and adding a feature to expose wipe-to-<x> volumes in the toolchange gcode as a variable.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Hello,

the new Dribbling V.B01 version is born 😀 
I am currently testing the logic and gcode output. Moreover I will need to change some minor interface elements.

Stay tuned.... 😊 

Regards

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

@antimix

great!   I  am available for beta testing you need.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Hi all,

PrusaSlicer 2.1.1 - Dribbling V.B01 is finally out 😀 

You can find at https://github.com/antimix/PrusaSlicer/releases/tag/dribbling_2.1.1-B01

You can download the executables or compile yourself.

This new version has a lot of capabilities we discuss together in the last months.

Happy printing.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

I have tested for a while and it seems to me that is working really fine.

I am still struggling a bit with PVA but it is only a matter of fine tuning since now I can use well defined temps for each filament.

I propose just a new feature. It could be useful when you have to move mmu to a different filament to go completely to the right and then come back to the right selection.

In this way you would use the blade to eventually cut bad filament ending and deploy them to the bottom of mmu itself ( on the right of mmu there i room to drop pieces down).

This would be very interesting feature that adds few time every switch but give more reliability to mmu filament switch activity.

Regards

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

For anyone interested, I have fixed the wipe tower temperature issue in this pull request but there's no telling if or when it will be included in a release of PrusaSlicer. Because PrusaSlicer doesn't do anything with dribbling, I didn't include anything about it; my focus was to fix a bug in the temperature control.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Super excited to try this when I have time.

Thanks!

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

Frustrating that PS hasn't been modified to fix this that I can tell.  Not sure I trust my abilities to make the modifications detailed in your Pull Request.  Is it a matter of just replacing those 2 files mentioned?

Having this issue consistently when using Silk filaments in combination with Prusament Galaxy Black filament.

RE:

Posted by: @rickm-3

Frustrating that PS hasn't been modified to fix this that I can tell.  Not sure I trust my abilities to make the modifications detailed in your Pull Request.  Is it a matter of just replacing those 2 files mentioned?

Having this issue consistently when using Silk filaments in combination with Prusament Galaxy Black filament.

Yes, it should be sufficient to replace those two files. The changes are pretty simple. If you go to https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/pull/9737/files the red highlights show what gets removed and the green highlights show what gets added. Ignore the blue, they just designate comparison boundaries. You can make the changes manually but it's best to let git do this for you.

If it's impractical to build your own, another option might be to change the temperatures of your filaments so they are nearer to each other - raise one and lower another.

It might help move things along if people commented in the PR to express support for this change.

RE: Changing color filaments with different temps is a challenge 3.8.1 & 1.06

@Anachronist Commented on PR 9737.  Will try replacing the files and see how works. Thanks for your work on this issue.