Spool Holders  

Re: Spool Holders

put them where you like so long as they work don't see the fuss really

Re: Spool Holders

put them where you like so long as they work don't see the fuss really

Very wrong answer!

Positioning is extremely important. When you receive the kit follow the instructions, get some prints completed and then try other positions (most of which will cause problems 🙁 ).

Peter

Re: Spool Holders

Is that positioning requirement official, and that critical Peter? If so I have spent £250 and waited five months for something I cannot use. I cannot recall seeing anything about this before now?

Re: Spool Holders

When they posted the manual on the site I noticed that too. Gotta shift some stuff around I guess.

Neal

Re: Spool Holders

I have to say that based on the above comments, I'm very interested to hear how you are supposed to be able to use any kind of Ikea Lack style enclosure with the MK3 MMU 2.0 ... I personally don't have such a big table available for the 3D printer in its current location.

Re: Spool Holders

Given some of the problems people had with the original MMU, I think it's prudent to first get it working in a completely bog-standard stock configuration, so I appreciate the advice.

One you know it works, then you can try making changes.

Personally, I plan to set it up on my dining room table and get at least a print or two done using the supplied spool holders. Then I'll move it back to my printer den where I have the overhead hanging spools. I doubt there will be a problem with the nonstandard spool configuration, but I agree that it's smart to test it the way it's designed to work first.

Re: Spool Holders

Mk3 + MMU2. More than 15" - more like 18".

Taking up as much space as the 2 x Mk2+MMU1 that used to reside there, having been turned through 90 degrees.

Build a shelf to put 3 spools on.

I initially had one spool at the side of the printer (near to the wall), but that didn't really work out very well.

Peter

Re: Spool Holders

Interesting. I can definitely rearrange my room to get some initial prints, but I've got a home-made 24" deep table for my three printers. Pulling my table 24"+ out from the wall to build a new extension behind would be a royal pain in my room. Similarly, running the printer sideways would be weird.

Once I get it working I'll look at the mechanics of it and experiment to see what I can make work. Ideal for me would be mounting the rolls directly under the back of the printer feeding up through holes in the bench. Easy access to the rolls, etc.

Paul

Re: Spool Holders

put them where you like so long as they work don't see the fuss really

Very wrong answer!

Positioning is extremely important. When you receive the kit follow the instructions, get some prints completed and then try other positions (most of which will cause problems 🙁 ).

Very NOT confidence-inspiring answer! 🙁 (Especially the parenthetical)

The pictures, video, and text on the announcement page all fail to mention that detail about spool placement. Yes, I know it's in the documentation, but I'm willing to wager it's still going to be a rude surprise for many who trusted Prusa's assurance:
you can start printing right away without any hassle.

[RANT]
IMO it's PPD having the filaments feed into the MMU from the bottom. This arrangement more than doubles the footprint of the printer! [N.B. Jorg] Who's got that kind of space in that configuration? It's sure not going to fit in the closet I had planned on setting it up in.

I'm sure they had their reasons (as incomprehensible as they may be), but does anyone disagree it would have made more sense (not to mention been far more convenient) to feed the filaments from the top? I expect sincerely hope they rethink this very soon. I'm going to have to seriously consider cancelling my order, selling my MK 3, and finding (or building) another printer that will print multi-materials in a more practical arrangement (like being able to place the spools overhead or underneath the printer).
[/RANT]

Re: Spool Holders

Ideal for me would be mounting the rolls directly under the back of the printer feeding up through holes in the bench. Easy access to the rolls, etc.

I think that's a non-starter. Maybe above would be OK, but underneath and the filament feed tubes will interfere with the extruder cable bundle.

Peter

Re: Spool Holders

[RANT]
IMO it's PPD having the filaments feed into the MMU from the bottom. This arrangement more than doubles the footprint of the printer! [N.B. Jorg] Who's got that kind of space in that configuration? It's sure not going to fit in the closet I had planned on setting it up in.

I'm sure they had their reasons (as incomprehensible as they may be), but does anyone disagree it would have made more sense (not to mention been far more convenient) to feed the filaments from the top? I expect sincerely hope they rethink this very soon. I'm going to have to seriously consider cancelling my order, selling my MK 3, and finding (or building) another printer that will print multi-materials in a more practical arrangement (like being able to place the spools overhead or underneath the printer).
[/RANT]

Depending on where in queue you happen to be, it's probably worth seeing what other people's experience is before assuming things are as inflexible as you think.

The early advice to get it working in a stock configuration first is good advice. But that doesn't mean that no changes are possible. It just means that we don't know what the envelope is yet.

The MMU2 needs to have the filament spools set up in a way that you can back-feed half a meter or so without causing tangles or interference with the motion of the printer itself. The stock spools are a known solution. But I doubt that they are the only solution.

According to UPS, my MMU2 might arrive tomorrow. Since changing the filament feed is one thing I definitely want to experiment with, I will be sure to post my experience for other people to learn from.

Edited to add: Filament/space management is going to be a bit of a PITA no matter the multimaterial solution you choose. The Palette+ requires a fair amount of table space which has to be right next to the printer, plus room for four reels of filament which inexplicably feed from the front of the unit, meaning that you either need to put them on the floor, reach over your filament to get to the Palette, or Rube Goldberg your way into an overhead feed. The Palette 2 feeds from below and is mounted on the side of the printer, which is arguably better but still awkward.

Re: Spool Holders

maybe an in depth video instead of 5 second blips of what it supposedly works like we could see how its gonna work out so according to peter if your spools are not set in the prusa way it wont work properly does not fill me with confidence in buying it but I will wait and see how the beta testers fair with it

Re: Spool Holders

Somehow I got dragged into this... 😯 😉

We'll have to wait for the first experiences, but my take on it is that the instruction on the manual is a "safe setup", implying that: "If it does not work like this, you have a problem" and "If something does not work, try this layout to rule out feeding issues". It makes sense from Prusa's point of view to do something like that, as that may allow them to rule out most problems that can occur.

Given that they write they are working on an update for the Ikea enclosure, I would guess they will come up with something from either a higher shelf or a lower shelf: the size of the shelf is limited and going up/down seems like the only option (unless they really put a second lack enclosure behind the first one, but that is not really much of a construction :))...

Personally, I don't see why rolls on a higher/lower shelf would not work as long as the tubes are loosely held in place to prevent them from blocking things and positioned so that retracting filament does not collide or entangle (which I assume it the biggest risk and the biggest cause of subsequent problems). To refer to Peter's photo: what if you would take a roll and mount it upside down above the printer? The filament would come from the top of the spool and come down behind the MMU and into it; important may be that e.g. the bowden tube stops above the roll, so that if filament is pushed back, it has space to go and does not hit something or entangle somewhere.

I also wonder if mounting the MMU perpendicular to its current orientation could not be an option: the rolls would be to side, the tube that goes to the toolhead would be positioned in a similar place. And perhaps there are more options with a longer tube between MMU and Printer (I think it was mentioned on the enclosure blog post comments that the MMU does not have to be attached to the printer), one could position it elsewhere (but it may require a longer bowden tube which in turn is probably more problematic as more filament needs to move back when it is swapped out).

It is a bit puzzling to my why they did not design it to take filament from the same direction as the printer does, but it is what it is. Putting 5 roles is already going to be a space issue, but I'm still confident solutions will be found. It just makes planning it much more difficult at this time, as it is so new that there are not many experiences...

Re: Spool Holders

Ideal for me would be mounting the rolls directly under the back of the printer feeding up through holes in the bench. Easy access to the rolls, etc.

I think that's a non-starter. Maybe above would be OK, but underneath and the filament feed tubes will interfere with the extruder cable bundle.

Peter

We'll see when I get it. If I look at the picture you posted, it looks like the feed tubes drape down within an inch or so of the surface of the table before looping back up the the shelf. It doesn't look it is interfering with anything. If instead of looping back up, they dropped through holes in the table to the rolls below, it seems like it would be a shorter path, more direct, and use up less space.

Only downside is I'll have to remix the spool holders: I'll want frictionless spool holders on a shelf under the table, and to have the same guide mechanism as is currently there, but feeding the filament vertically rather than horizontally.

To cut through some of the responses:
1) I will of course get it fully dialed in with the specified setup and holders on a flat table.
2) I'm not angry they did it the way they did it, their approach seems like a reasonable one, and for them simple/reliable would be key at this point
3) I'll need to get a few prints through and watch the filament behavior on changes. That'll give me a much better idea how to rework the design for my space while keeping (or improving) the smooth/frictionless filament path

For me, half the fun will be experimenting with it and seeing what works.

Paul

Re: Spool Holders

Guys:

Since I first heard about/saw videos of it (several months ago), this MMU 2 has gone through several major design changes and Beta testing. I'm very skeptable [sic] this issue didn't come up during Beta (if not sooner). Likewise with any workarounds; IME, Beta testers are very imaginative/innovative. And they couldn't come up with something better than this?

I'll reiterate--IMO (and that's all it is--an opinion) loading the filaments from the bottom of the back is PPD. I think it's a case of someone getting all worked up about the idea, making premature announcements/promises, and (possibly) rushing a product to market before it was fully thought through/shaken out.

We all know this happens in the tech industry.

Re: Spool Holders

This is really good info!
I just saved myself 300 euro as Im not willing to sacrifice so much space.
Im sure though, that a solution will be found 😉

Re: Spool Holders

Likewise with any workarounds; IME, Beta testers are very imaginative/innovative. And they couldn't come up with something better than this?

Maybe they did, but the presented option turned out to be the cheapest alternative. It would be understandable for Prusa to keep the price down, particularly as most users will have some customized setup anyway. Perhaps other mounting options (that e.g. require more printed components) may still surface... still very early days...

Re: Spool Holders

This is why I asked the question...I cannot afford 15 inches behind my printer. I will wait and see how the early adopters arrange it before I make a cancel decision. Extremely troublesome that this highly preferred setup for proper printing is not mentioned as a requirement on the user end (if it is true).

Re: Spool Holders

This is why I asked the question...I cannot afford 15 inches behind my printer. I will wait and see how the early adopters arrange it before I make a cancel decision. Extremely troublesome that this highly preferred setup for proper printing is not mentioned as a requirement on the user end (if it is true).

When did you order? What are your options for spool placement? I'm confident people will work out options, although it will take some work.

I suspect there are two big issues (in reverse order of difficulty)
1) friction-free pulling of filament (easy)
2) handling the "push-back" of 6-8 inches of filament gracefully

Because the filament is unloaded regularly, it has to go somewhere. If it pushed back cleanly onto the spool, that would be great, but difficult to manage. I suspect there have been issues where it pushes out randomly, causes loops/tangles, and then jams when being used again. Prusa has found a simple solution that works: their new spool holders, far enough behind the machine to not tangle with the bed/wires, with their fancy guides that encourage the 'push-back' filament to gracefully loop in a safe space.

Once we see that working, I'm (mostly) confident that similar results can be obtained with overhead shelf mounting or under table mounting. Getting the friction-free pulling is easy. The hard part is going to be getting the push-back loop to be clean/non-tangling. I'm confident we can get there, though.

I suspect the Prusa selection of "on the table behind the printer" was simply the lowest common denominator. PR new that everybody would have access to a table of some kind and could make this approach work. They could not depend on everyone having a shelf over the printer or under the table, as most would not. They definitely would not have wanted to added significantly to the priceby adding a structure that could hold 5 (heavy!) filament rolls above the printer without impacting resonance/stability of the printer itself.