Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?  

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @jsw

Posted by: @prusanewuser

Hi, the Prusa textured sheet caused texture on one side of my print. I prefer smooth looking without any texture. What product do you recommend? Tried the Prusa PEI smooth sheet but it was hard to remove the prints from the sheet. Tried to put the included glue on the smooth sheet before printing but it did not help.

For PETg on the smooth sheet, be sure to use a release agent.  The glue stick that comes with the printer will work, but things like Layerneer will go on with a much thinner coat than the glue stick.  Your PETg prints will come off with a gentle twist of the smooth sheet if you use a release agent and allow the plate to cool to near room temperature when the print is complete.

From your description, Layerneer does sound interesting.  Does it need washing off afterward like  Magigoo or glue stick do?

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @dimprov

Posted by: @prusanewuser

Posted by: @dimprov

Reporting back:  The geckoTek is performing well as a build plate for PETG, provided you wipe it with IPA about once every 5 to 10 prints.  If you don't, it will lose adhesion near the ends of long printed objects and allow them to warp.   The manufacturer claims each sticker lasts 100 prints. I haven't been keeping count on the first sticker, which is still in good shape, but I'll try counting on the next sticker whenever it is that I replace it.

Is the surface completely smooth or textured? Do you put it on top of the PEI smooth sheet or textured sheet is OK too?

GeckoTek is completely smooth.  It doesn't require a release agent for PETG, and I'm not using one either.  I do though recommend printing the first layer high.  If you squish too much then releasing might be a problem.  I would say the same for other surfaces.  

It's just a sticker.  You'll need a spring steel blank to attach it to.  I'm not sure how it would perform if you pasted it directly over a PEI sheet, as I haven't tried that.  I'm guessing it would work, but I haven't read of anyone who has trialed it that way.  I have removed a smooth Prusa PEI sheet from spring steel before, and IMHO it's more trouble than it's worth.

Do you mean most users just stick it on a spring stall blank sheet? If I have a PEI sheet with damaged top due to removal of the PETG, can I just remove the top part and attach the GeckoTek on it?

What size do you recommend for the following cases:

1. Print almost entirely on the the entire sheet.

2. Print on perhaps 50% of the middle.

Is it as difficult to attach it nicely?

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@prusanewuser

I removed BuildTak from a BuildTak spring steel sheet and applied it to that.  The BuildTak removed without too much effort, but I did need a heat gun for some of it.

I don't know what you mean by removing just "the top part" of a PEI sheet.  Do you mean removing one side of a PEI spring steel sheet and not the other?  I haven't tried that before, so I can't really say.  When I removed Prusa PEI, I removed it from both sides.  I suppose there might exist some way to remove it from one side only, but I haven't tried it, and I can only imagine it would be difficult without ruining the backside PEI in the process.  That said, I used paint stripper to get the job done, which was no doubt stronger than the recommended removal agent (which was lemon or lime essence something or other) in vogue at the time.  It was some kind of unobtanium that cost as much or more than a new spring steel sheet.  Even then it was a difficult process and it definitely didn't come off easily.  There may be other/better methods for doing it than what I did.  I wouldn't want to do it again--at least not the way I did it.  Maybe it could be burned off with a torch or a heat gun?  Either way, you'll also need appropriate PPE, which if you don't already have it will add to the cost. Consult other threads or the knowledge base for more current or up-to-date advice.

I thought it attached easier than BuildTak.  Maybe similar in difficulty to attaching a PEI sheet.

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@prusanewuser No offense, but from your questions I would guess you need more experience before trying this.  If you do decide to go ahead, don't rely on your backside PEI being useable any longer.

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@prusanewuser

Moving your print away from the middle some of the time will make the sheet last longer.  

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@dimprov

I would recommend that even PEI cool all the way to room temp, but at a minimum, let it go to 40-50C.

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @cwbullet

@prusanewuser

Moving your print away from the middle some of the time will make the sheet last longer.  

Thanks for the suggestion. How come? Is it because if we print at the same place all the time, it looses adhesiveness? 

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @dimprov

@prusanewuser

I removed BuildTak from a BuildTak spring steel sheet and applied it to that.  The BuildTak removed without too much effort, but I did need a heat gun for some of it.

I don't know what you mean by removing just "the top part" of a PEI sheet.  Do you mean removing one side of a PEI spring steel sheet and not the other?  I haven't tried that before, so I can't really say.  When I removed Prusa PEI, I removed it from both sides.  I suppose there might exist some way to remove it from one side only, but I haven't tried it, and I can only imagine it would be difficult without ruining the backside PEI in the process.  That said, I used paint stripper to get the job done, which was no doubt stronger than the recommended removal agent (which was lemon or lime essence something or other) in vogue at the time.  It was some kind of unobtanium that cost as much or more than a new spring steel sheet.  Even then it was a difficult process and it definitely didn't come off easily.  There may be other/better methods for doing it than what I did.  I wouldn't want to do it again--at least not the way I did it.  Maybe it could be burned off with a torch or a heat gun?  Either way, you'll also need appropriate PPE, which if you don't already have it will add to the cost. Consult other threads or the knowledge base for more current or up-to-date advice.

I thought it attached easier than BuildTak.  Maybe similar in difficulty to attaching a PEI sheet.

I am a bit confused about how to use this thing. From the below video, the product seems to be like those Prusa steel sheets that could be just put on the i3 heat bed without anything in between. Since the video is old, maybe they changed the product? In other places, I think I read that it is like a sheet to be put on something else on top of the heat bed.

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@prusanewuser

Be very careful printing ABS or PETG on Buildtak.  It can stick too much over time.  

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

A lot of the older surfaces like BuildTak, GeckoTec were alternatives to goop on glass before removable beds and alien technologies like PEI became readily available. There must be a dozen variations on 'em.

The marketing for many of these still show the old fixed bed printers, but you can apply them to the spring steel sheet. I've put BuildTak and textured vinyl on the Prusa steel sheet with no issues. I've managed to trash 2 pricey BuildTak surfaces on the first print, so have soured on them. The finish is much like the satin sheet. 

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @bobstro

A lot of the older surfaces like BuildTak, GeckoTec were alternatives to goop on glass before removable beds and alien technologies like PEI became readily available. There must be a dozen variations on 'em.

The marketing for many of these still show the old fixed bed printers, but you can apply them to the spring steel sheet. I've put BuildTak and textured vinyl on the Prusa steel sheet with no issues. I've managed to trash 2 pricey BuildTak surfaces on the first print, so have soured on them. The finish is much like the satin sheet. 

It seems that besides Hot and Cold, there is another version that is like a steel sheet (see video). I am still confused.

Do you mean I can just apply it on top of the Prusa's "Spring Steel Sheet With Smooth Double-sided PEI" which came with the machine? Actually, which would produce better results? Putting it on top of the Sprint Steel Sheet with Smooth Double0sided PEI, BuildTak or glass?

I am asking for recommendation on which size of the GeckoTek sheet to get because I tried Kapton tape that has nearly the same size as the Spring Steel Sheet but it was very very difficult to apply without any bubble, winkle or tearing on the tape. Are all Kapton tapes difficult to apply or I just got one that is difficult to use?

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @prusanewuser

Posted by: @dimprov

@prusanewuser

I removed BuildTak from a BuildTak spring steel sheet and applied it to that.  The BuildTak removed without too much effort, but I did need a heat gun for some of it.

I don't know what you mean by removing just "the top part" of a PEI sheet.  Do you mean removing one side of a PEI spring steel sheet and not the other?  I haven't tried that before, so I can't really say.  When I removed Prusa PEI, I removed it from both sides.  I suppose there might exist some way to remove it from one side only, but I haven't tried it, and I can only imagine it would be difficult without ruining the backside PEI in the process.  That said, I used paint stripper to get the job done, which was no doubt stronger than the recommended removal agent (which was lemon or lime essence something or other) in vogue at the time.  It was some kind of unobtanium that cost as much or more than a new spring steel sheet.  Even then it was a difficult process and it definitely didn't come off easily.  There may be other/better methods for doing it than what I did.  I wouldn't want to do it again--at least not the way I did it.  Maybe it could be burned off with a torch or a heat gun?  Either way, you'll also need appropriate PPE, which if you don't already have it will add to the cost. Consult other threads or the knowledge base for more current or up-to-date advice.

I thought it attached easier than BuildTak.  Maybe similar in difficulty to attaching a PEI sheet.

I am a bit confused about how to use this thing. From the below video, the product seems to be like those Prusa steel sheets that could be just put on the i3 heat bed without anything in between. Since the video is old, maybe they changed the product? In other places, I think I read that it is like a sheet to be put on something else on top of the heat bed.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but one difference is that his GeckoTek came pre-applied to a steel sheet.  My GeckoTek sheets came as only stickers that have yet to be applied to steel and that definitely do need to be applied to steel sheets before they are used.  Definitely do not apply a sticker directly to the Prusa PCB heatbed or you'll likely be buying a new one when your sticker wears out.

Also, he portrays the PETG as somehow taking chunks or layers out of the GeckoTek sheet, and he claims that it is deformed as a result.  I think he may be misinterpreting.  It is true that there can be some kind of afterimage left on the sheet after printing--I'm not sure what it is composed of--but in my experience it completely disappears after a wipe-down with IPA.

He used a metal tool to remove the octopus, whereas you're only supposed to use plastic tools, if needed, to help with removal.  For this purpose I use a PETG printed letter opener that I found on thingiverse.

Lastly, he said toward the beginning that he should have redone his z-height, but that he didn't.  He then complains about the prints sticking too much.   I can't be sure, but it sounds like maybe he had too much squish on his first layer.  Yes, if you have too much squish, you will have a harder time removing the print--not just with Geckotek but with many if not all other build surfaces that don't rely on a release agent being applied before each print.  The manufacturer makes no mention of first layer squish in their otherwise terse instructions, and judging from my experience with GeckoTek that's a significant omission.  For the first layer, I've found that a layer height equal to the nozzle diameter seems to work for this purpose, and so you may want/need a wider layer width for your first layer too.

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@dimprov, is your GeckoTek sheet easy to apply? Is it like a cardboard rather than like a thin A4 paper? I had horrible experience in using Kapton tape which is very thin. It is very difficult to unroll and apply on a surface perfectly. 

Given that the Prusa's smooth PEI sheet is very good for PLA, why would anybody buy the Cold version of the GeckoTek sheet to print PLA?

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@prusanewuser

GeckoTek is easy to apply.  

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @prusanewuser

Given that the Prusa's smooth PEI sheet is very good for PLA, why would anybody buy the Cold version of the GeckoTek sheet to print PLA?

I presume the cold version is intended for people who don't have heated beds.

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

So, what is the best thing to attach the GeckoTek on to? Has anybody tried to attach it on a glass sheet and then on the heat bed? 

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@prusanewuser

No.  I bought a blank steel plate.  You can get one from China for $14 USD.  I just attack PEI to one side and Geckotek to the other.   

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@cwbullet

Thanks. Why you need to attach PEI on one side? So doing it this way is easier than buying the Spring Steel Sheet with Smooth Double-sided PEI and perhaps remove one PEI from it?

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

Posted by: @prusanewuser

So, what is the best thing to attach the GeckoTek on to? Has anybody tried to attach it on a glass sheet and then on the heat bed? 

I use the PrintedSolid spring steel sheets for $17. The coating seems to be much better than Prusa's for protection against corrosion under the PEI after application. 

RE: Which are the best build surfaces for PETG?

@bobstro

Thanks. This is a very good product. I tried to order it but they don't ship outside the US. Do you have other suggestions? Actually, will any "spring steel sheet" that fits the hot bed work?