MK3S Mosquito integration  

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi tim-m30,

Thank you for the content formatting hint.  Will follow your guidance on the next go.  It looks like the thumb nail may look better for the attachment if a PNG is used?

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi James.

The stock PRUSA LDO motors are 1.8 Deg stepping, if you wan't to read all about improvements to 0.9 stepping then read the excellent work guy-k2 has put in: https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles-.../stepper-motor-upgrades-to-eliminate-vfa-s-vertical-fine-artifacts/

I built a skelestruder before guy2k had created his design for the bunny extruder which also supports the mosquito : https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles-.../bunny-and-bear-bnbsx-short-ears-mk3s-extruder-added-mosquito-option/

I fitted the OMC Stepperonline 17HS10-0704s motor to the skelestruder (3.5 reduction ratio) and find it works just fine as it is, it gets a bit warm if there are a lot of retracts, but not hot, if you do find your motor is getting too hot, then in your custom G-Code in Printer settings, add the line M907 E400 just before the purge line. This will set your motor current to 400mA, if you get extruder clicking adjust higher (25 increments), you should be able to tune it for good extrusion without misfeeding and keep the temperature down. I found I could still print PETG at 100% speeds with the current set as low as 300mA, but currently running it at stock settings which are actually for the LDO motor which is a bigger motor.

(I believe stock motor current is either 600mA or 650mA, but not 100% certain, also at stock current the particular stepperonline motor I use is running at around it's maximum torque output).

Then again I'm regularly printing at 150% speed 260 deg C, Technology Outlet PETG (T-Glase) hence the stock motor current for now, without any issues.

What I do like about the skelestruder is the visibility of the nozzle and the cooling works well, but sometimes you have to think about how you orient the print if it has overhangs or bridges. I do have a slight concern about the cooling nozzle and the mosquito heater block since it is so asymmetric, but I have printed the skelestruder OMEGA cooling nozzle out of Rigid.Ink Clear polycarbonate which is a pure polycarbonate which gives it a higher temperature resistance compared to some blended polycarbonates, but also makes it more difficult to print, for this I'm having to max out the E3d hot end (295 Deg C) and Prusa print bed (115 Deg C), which is another reason I'm looking to move to the mosquito.

The improved PSU will allow me to over volt slightly to help with heating of the bed. 26v MAX. And I'm going to insulate the underside of the heated bed but keep the thermocouple exposed (Hole in the insulation) but add another layer of kapton tape between it and the bed, this should increase the hot bed temperature as it already is lower than what the printer says it is.

As a warning to anyone reading this and thinking about over volting their printer.

Do not go higher than 26.0v MAX as the volt sense divider will end up shoving more than 5v into the ATMEGA 2560

There are voltage dividers consisting of a 10k and 2k37 resistor which at 26v will give a 4.981 voltage output which is used to sense the incoming voltages on pins A9 and A4 of the ATMEGA.

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi Chocki,

Generally when reading technical data it sticks... After looking over your response I immediately looked at the printer; “NEMA17 1.8° Stepper Motor”, well shoot!  Stick me in the eye! Now where in the heck did I read that! Didn’t even observe this during build! Errrrrr…. Immediately ordered a couple of Moons and harnesses as this was already the desired hardware config.  Would be nice to see Joseph’s consideration for .9s in his MK4? But at 8bit the Rambo could be running out of headroom? Looking forward to the installation.

Also thanks for the E-Extruder voltage recommendations.  Sure is nice to have a tried and proven baseline to start with.  Took some time to read through the guy-k2 and Skelestruder links and it became obvious I’m dealing with a couple of people who know what they’re talking about.  I was also impressed to see a Skelestruder guide in ifixit. Had excellent instructions and assembly images. Getting a 404 now? See what you mean about symmetry. The kit supplied V6 clearance radius looks like around 13mm where the Mosquito needs to be around 14mm?  Also the layer cooling ducts may require some tweaking? Not sure what the Mosquito’s finished length will be with a V6 adapter. Using the Slice Engineering recommended Prusa adapter and stock Prusa fan hotend cooling has been a rock solid experience. I’m unconditionally impressed with all aspects of the component.  With your higher heat requirements I’m interested in your observation with the Mosquito magnum install. Those guys seem pretty up and up. So far their engineering seems to live up to their claims. Thought about ordering a second Prusa to install the magnum for testing. But the old saying is, “finish what you start or you’ll finish nothing”.  

For now I’m looking forward to installing the Moons and tinkering with the E-Extruder voltage.  Great thanks for the pointers! The attached photo is a baseline Prusa Sliced cube. As with the Benchy viewing it in hand it looks beautiful!  If I can get to the point where the Benchy transom placard is easily legible at .1 ~ .15 layer height and 60mm/sec with the Slice Engineerings .4 nozzle I’ll be happy.  If this can become the new baseline while mostly eliminating VFA it would be my end goal for this printer configuration. In the near future would like to install the Skelestruder with the V6 on a 32bit dev test machine.  Already chomping at the bit.. No pun intended ;/ Still have a lot to learn……….

So far in this brief journey Prusa and Slice Engineering have one my favor among available off the shelf hardware/assemblies.  Hopefully Moons will be added to the list. If the component doesn’t add exceptional value to the assembly it’s not worth the time.  If the price is excessive and it’s the same O’ same O’ components configured differently without improved repeatable print quality it’s not worth the time.  Willy Nilly engineering only goes so far before the raw materials and methane make their way out of the bladder. As relative to the Purpose, Function, and Use scale 😉  I’m old enough to remember the Pet Rock, and yes I did by one.

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Also the layer cooling ducts may require some tweaking?

I haven't looked at how the omega duct interacts with the Mosquito's wider and asymmetric layout. On the BNBSX, it required a modified fan shroud to properly clear the Mosquito heater cartridge. Most existing fan shrouds either didn't fit or were close enough that their tips would melt. The wider fan shroud needed more secure support than the usual single screw. One nice feature on the BNBSX is ability to adapt air plenum width and hot fin shape to match the installed hot end. That is done by swapping out just some small parts rather than reprinting the whole extruder. 

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy.k2,

Both the Skelestruder and BNBSX look well engineerd to adapt to the Mosquito.  For the BNBSX is the following link applicable?  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3651160

Also here's the Extruder Body I printed for my current configuration:. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3515782

Love those nice short filament paths!

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Yes. That is the Mosquito kit for the BNBSX. Just to be clear, it is primarily for the BNBSX MK3S and Short Ears MK3 extruders. Although you could use the groove adapter in the kit on other extruders, you won't gain the antirotation feature. Anti-rotation benefit of the kit's groove adapters only applies to those two Bunny Science extruders.

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

This is what we mean by the Mosquito being asymmetric. Heater cartridge and thermistor extends quite a bit laterally. That puts them inside where most fan shrouds have their left tip. Even the wider RPS shroud has its tip too close and will melt. Shown above is Bunny Science remix of RHD fan shroud. Even it is pretty close. It is a balancing act. Farther is better for shroud, but worse for airflow. This is a functioning compromise. 

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

My Mosquito is at the trans-shipper and will be on the way to Oz soon(ish).  I've printed the new parts so now just waiting.  That said I'm pretty happy with the quality I'm currently getting on my MK3s/MMU2s.  One Q that comes to mind, can we now attempt to print stuff like PEEK?  It's very expensive stuff but a local supplier has it on special at the moment. 

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy-k2,

Ok; yes, got it...  During initial dev test I noticed a plethora of layer cooling ducts designed for screw together heat blocks of varying Z heights.  During test I used a single duct along the Y Axis approaching from the front of the printer.  By luck the Prusa MK3S ducts cleared nicely.  Also with both the Mosquito and Mosquito Magnum the Z heights are static requiring no additional mechanical consideration other than the asymmetrical attribute of the Slice Engineered hotend.  Having to make duct changes Z height is eliminated.  For me a constant mechanical Z height regardless of material print temperatures and speed was a real plus.  This far out weighs the niggle of having to consider duct tip placement?

Again thanks for clarifying..

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi jmone,

First let me lead in by saying I'm new to the game and have yet the opportunity to print with materials requiring more than 280C.  With that said and my understanding the Mosquito with a 50W heater and a tolerant thermistor cartridge will print PEEK at average speeds.  During testing what I have noticed is thermistors have a tendency to be in error as much as 10C.  At lower print temperatures this is huge.  I've been bit (not by the Mosquito 😉 ) so many times that I've developed a habit of testing every thermistor on my dev test machine prior to use.  Errrr,  drives me nuts.....  For a high performance high temperature additive machine the Mosquito Magnum would be the way to go.  For a machine who's job is to occasionally print at high temperatures the standard Mosquito with a 50W cartridge is the way to go.  Some folks buy the Magnum and down grade (swap out the heat break) it if need be.  All while maintaining Z height!

Love this thing.....  Just the mechanical configuration control alone wins my favor.  A little more expensive up front but the time and money saved in the long run is huge.  I have a whole box of hotends awaiting a garage sale. 🙄 

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I've go the Magnum / Hotend Thermistor / 50w Hotend Cartridge on its way.  The plan was to also pair it with a Tungsten Carbide nozzle and see how it all goes.

I'm not sure I understand the downside of the Magnum (if any) over the std Mosquito.  I read the std is better for detail but I don't understand why that would be if the print settings are the same.

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

magnum/volcano nozzles create a larger zone of softened filament which is great if you want to use a larger nozzle or print faster ( more filament/time). For smaller nozzles or slower/detailed printing all that soft plastinc makes it harder to get accurate retracts and fine control of the process

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Gotcha - I think I'll be happy with the Magnum if I can bump up my print speed without sacrificing my current quality (E3D).  That said if I do want to swap between the Magnum and Std Mosquito what bits do I need?

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

You need one of these: https://www.sliceengineering.com/shop/heat-break

And it would be a good idea to buy one of these just in case: https://www.sliceengineering.com/shop/hot-block-mounting-hardware

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thanks.... ordered the extra bits.  I wish in the 21st century these companies would ship internationally, it;s a PITA to use a transhipper (which I've now put on "hold" till the extra bit arrive so they ship together).

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Another Q: I read with the Mosquito Hotend Thermistor "Requires update of ADC table in printer firmware" .  How do we do this on the MK3s?

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi jmone,

Have a look at Chris Riley's YouTube epesode and see what you think:.

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi jmone,

I'm a little out of my league here as I have no experience with the Magnum configuration and application.  But I'm confident that the heartbreak is the same on both configurations.  The Magnum adds the insulator to the assembly moving the melt zone higher in the block.  My testing has shown that the heat break is extremely efficient. Good to have the additional parts on hand though.  Question, which nozzle are you using?

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thanks mate.  No toooooo bad.  It will be a couple of weeks till I get my hardware

RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

This is the nozzle I have... https://www.ev3dm.com/product/tungsten-premium-nozzle/

It is currently unused as I'm running the E3D X-Nozzle at present in the stock block.  I like the thermals of the Tungsten (like brass) but with the hardness to handle any filament.  The plan is to mount this nozzle on the Mozzie.