Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle  

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

0.4mm nozzle will not give you any benefit over V6

Is this true? I thought I could at least print faster with the volcano and it's 0.4mm nozzle.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Don't forget to ajust height, you will need to print a volcano fan duct first, and a pinda mount

Yes. So, for anyone in need of those, there's only one posted volcano fan duct with PINDA that I know of, and it's this:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2782716

and I posted the hex file for the height adjustment baked into a recompiled v3.2.1 Prusa firmware here:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles--f65/is-the-24v-volcano-heater-block-the-correct-match--t18527-s10.html

There's only one example of slicer settings for a volcano that I could find, and it's for a 0.8mm nozzle here:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/improvements-archive--f85/e3d-volcano-height-adjust-t5896-s20.html
So, for that reason, and because I'm an absolute noob, I will, reluctantly, start with a 0.8mm nozzle.

There's also some anecdotal evidence that a swiss heatbreak might be better than what's used in the Prusa variant of the V6:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/general-discussion-announcements-and-releases-f61/extruder-motor-getting-too-hot-t15709-s20.html
I suppose if I had one of those, I'd chuck it in while doing the volcano upgrade, since it seems to require a total teardown of the printhead to install it.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

I'm using my new Volcano since yesterday, and a 0.4mm Nozzle along with it.
Changing a lot of settings in firmware and slicer, i can now go to some crazy speeds.
(stioll trying to figure out if i have everything right -> https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/hardware-firmware-and-software-help-f64/what-values-do-i-need-to-change-in-the-firmware-in-t18812.html )

Printing above 250+mm with the 0.4 Nozzle now, although contrary to Tomans Sanlanderers video, the Volcano has some CRAZY Oozing. Like 5 times more oozing than the stock V6 had

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

0.4mm nozzle will not give you any benefit over V6

Is this true? I thought I could at least print faster with the volcano and it's 0.4mm nozzle.

You can print faster, but that will affect the part quality.
For example, 0.2mm profile can be bump up, there are a margin to speed everything up to 120mm/s, but prusa don't use that speeds for perimeters or small perimeters because of overall part quality. Profiles are balanaced for a quality/speed ratio.
120mm/s is already a good and high speed but printing at it will create imperfections if your part is small or have many small details. I guess for Vase Mode or big objects with only perimeters you can use that speeds.
With volcano you can go up 450mm/s (0.4mm nozzle + 0.2mm layer heights) if hardware and firmware allow it but that will destroy your part look for sure.

And renember you have limitations:
1) Volcano max volumetric volume +/- 40mm^3/s
2) Filament type have a limitation too.
3) Hardware limitations: Axis can't move faster than they can
4) Firmware: There are virtual limits that don't allow you to go up that limit, but they can be changed

The real volcano benefit is run a 0.8mm nozzle or higher and print 0.6mm layers at same speed of a 0.4mm nozzle at 0.2mm layers. That way you keep the good quality of the part but print lot faster because you are disposing more plastic at same speeds.

Examples:
V6 0.4mm nozzle, 0.2mm layer height - max speed: +/-120mm/s
V6 0.4mm nozzle, 0.3mm layer height - max speed: +/-74mm/s
V6 0.8mm nozzle, 0.6mm layer height - max speed: +/-20mm/s
Volcano 0.8mm nozzle, 0.6mm layer height - max speed: +/-297mm/s

Here you can see where volcano benefits, if you run the v6 with a 0.8mm nozzle you can't go faster than 20mm/s, thats slow...
But with a volcano and same nozzle width you can go up to 300mm/s, that doesn't mean you should use that speed, but rather i would keep the recommended prusa speeds, maybe try to increase and test 10mm/s at time one parameter at time.

So run a volcano 0.4mm nozzle 0.2mm layer heigths have no real benefit over v6. It start to benefit at >= 0.3mm layer heights.
Volcano is to print big 😀

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

2) Filament type have a limitation too.

Now that you've mentioned it, which filament type can print the fastest?

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

2) Filament type have a limitation too.

Now that you've mentioned it, which filament type can print the fastest?

PETG is the one you must care most. You can find the setting over Filament -> Advanced.
PLA and ABS can print fast, the brand will also matter.
I will say PLA better because ABS need to cooldown before new layer be apply.

Thats a comercial video...

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

I'm in the middle of installing the Volcano now. I'm keeping the Prusa thermistor cartridge, but only because it has a plug already soldered on to its wiring for fitting into the control box. The E3D's plug isn't Prusa compatible. I am swapping out to the new heater cartridge, though, mainly because I couldn't easily remove the Prusa heater cartridge from the Prusa V6 heat block. Also, it didn't see worth the bother.

Looking back on it, I think it would have been easier (though admittedly a bit more expensive) to just install a completely new full-on E3D V6 volcano kit. I think when the megavolcano comes out, I may do exactly that when upgrading.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

I reamed out the PINDA holder with a 5/16" drill bit. This way the PINDA slides up and down until I lock it into place with the screw. I found the original setup of screwing the PINDA into place to be quite tedious, and it twirled the cabling as well.

With the new setup, there are actually two bolt justments to hold the PINDA firmly in place.
😀

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

This may be a stupid question, but how should I calibrate the z-height for my Volcano with a 0.8mm nozzle? I blithely went ahead and did the standard Prusa calibration with the mandatory PLA filament. Is that the right thing to do? Or do I need to do some kind of custom z-height adjustment based on faster extrusion rates? I mean, for a 0.8mm nozzle, the standard Prusa z-height test is probably under-extruding during it's test (since it assumes a 0.4mm nozzle), and I'm such a noob that I'm not sure the right way to think about this.

Once I increase the extrusion rate to 3x or more, won't the z-height be too low for the first layer? So, for that reason, I'm thinking now that I need to develop my own calibration print routine. Has anyone here already done that? Maybe you could share it?

Failing that, I suppose I could just design a small filled rectangle at the target layer height, slice it at the "proper" 0.8mm volcano slicer settings, and print that as my calibration test. Then I would simply use Live Z-tune to set the proper z-height. That would make sense as a rough-and-ready calibration, wouldn't it? Yeah, I guess that's how it should be done.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

In developing my ow calibration routine, I have hit upon the conundrum that the z-height can be too high for printing perimeters while it's too low for printing infill at 100%, even though I set the speeds for both perimeters and infill to be the same (200mm/sec). Hmm...

OK, I'm tired of monologging. Over and out.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

I reamed out the PINDA holder with a 5/16" drill bit. This way the PINDA slides up and down until I lock it into place with the screw. I found the original setup of screwing the PINDA into place to be quite tedious, and it twirled the cabling as well.

With the new setup, there are actually two bolt justments to hold the PINDA firmly in place.
😀

True, but you only need to set it one time correctly, so not that bad 😀

This may be a stupid question, but how should I calibrate the z-height for my Volcano with a 0.8mm nozzle? I blithely went ahead and did the standard Prusa calibration with the mandatory PLA filament. Is that the right thing to do? Or do I need to do some kind of custom z-height adjustment based on faster extrusion rates? I mean, for a 0.8mm nozzle, the standard Prusa z-height test is probably under-extruding during it's test (since it assumes a 0.4mm nozzle), and I'm such a noob that I'm not sure the right way to think about this.

Once I increase the extrusion rate to 3x or more, won't the z-height be too low for the first layer? So, for that reason, I'm thinking now that I need to develop my own calibration print routine. Has anyone here already done that? Maybe you could share it?

Failing that, I suppose I could just design a small filled rectangle at the target layer height, slice it at the "proper" 0.8mm volcano slicer settings, and print that as my calibration test. Then I would simply use Live Z-tune to set the proper z-height. That would make sense as a rough-and-ready calibration, wouldn't it? Yeah, I guess that's how it should be done.

You just need to follow prusa manual for adjust pinda, with the zip-tie method and you are good.
Next re do XYZ
Setup your live Z
Print square samples (eg. 60x60mm) to calibrate live z at center, the included method sucks and not meant for that nozzle anyway.
It's all the same as standard setup

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Hi

I've just replaced the hotend to 0,8 mm and now struggling with getting the correct settings in Slic3r PE 1.41. RC to full make use of the quicker print
I've read carefully the whole thread and unfortunately haven't found the simple guide about which parameters to change and how.

I'll be using PETG and ASA.

Can anyone please share the settings for 0.8 nozzle for PETG and ASA/ABS and also for 0.6 nozzle (I'll probably use it as well)

Many Thanks!

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Hi

I've just replaced the hotend to 0,8 mm and now struggling with getting the correct settings in Slic3r PE 1.41. RC to full make use of the quicker print
I've read carefully the whole thread and unfortunately haven't found the simple guide about which parameters to change and how.

I'll be using PETG and ASA.

Can anyone please share the settings for 0.8 nozzle for PETG and ASA/ABS and also for 0.6 nozzle (I'll probably use it as well)

Many Thanks!

Well i have for 0.6mm but i'm using volcano.
Do you use volcano as well?

For wall thick you must set from 0.8mm to 1.7mm. So 0.9mm is a good value or double everything from 0.4mm profile and half the speed

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

[...] Can anyone please share the settings for 0.8 nozzle for PETG and ASA/ABS and also for 0.6 nozzle (I'll probably use it as well)
I'll provide more detail, but in the meantime, you might find my notes on nozzle sizes and creating Slic3rPE profiles useful. As PJR and others note, the Max volumetric speed setting is the key to success with larger nozzle sizes.

Edit:

General guidelines

Max volumetric speed is calculated as:

Layer Height X Extrusion Width X Speed = Max volumetric speed

This means we can calculate maximum speeds for our E3D V6 as:

Speed = 11.5mm^3/s / (Layer Height X Extrusion Width)

So to answer lukash's question, with a 0.80mm nozzle, you can use the following rough guidelines using an extrusion width of 120% (0.96mm) -- all speeds rounded down:

These sound terribly slow, but remember you're laying down just as much plastic if not more as you would using a smaller nozzle. Linear speed really isn't as important as how long your print takes. If you can save printing a perimeter by using a wider extrusion width and higher layer heights, you'll very possibly save a lot more time than you would with your nozzle zipping around at higher speeds extruding far less plastic. After all, Speed is just an illusion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a 0.80mm nozzle at 0.64mm layer height and 0.96mm extrusion width moving at the same speed as a 0.40mm nozzle at 0.32mm layer height and 0.48mm extrusion width will lay down 8X as much plastic -- the Square Cube Law IIRC. Even at the same layer height, at 1/2 the speed of the 0.40mm nozzle, the 0.80mm nozzle will lay down just as much filament.

Should you do this with a stock Mk3 with an E3D V6 hotend? Sure, why not? If you're not worried about a quick finish, it works just fine. The fact that the Mk3 is capable of fine detail work using a 0.20mm nozzle in no way means you "shouldn't" print all you like with a 0.80mm nozzle. If you're using vase mode or exotic filled materials, doing so makes a lot of sense. Here's a benchy printed using a 0.80mm nozzle with 0.64mm layer heights:

Hell, if you just want to experiment, there's no reason not to slap a 1.00mm nozzle on there. Here are a couple of benchys printed with a 1.00mm nozzle with variable 0.10-0.80mm layer heights (3h print time) on the left, and fixed 0.80mm (25m print time -- it was a contest) on the right:

These aren't going to win any beauty contests, but the chunky heights have an aesthetic of their own. You can use smaller layer heights and put a lot more care into the finish than I've done here of course. I'll try to put some pics up using a larger nozzle size using "normal" layer heights. They look the same externally... which you'd expect.

I think the real question is why you'd use a nozzle any smaller than you absolutely have to?

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

@tiago.c - I use standard E3D v6 extruder

@bobstro - Many thanks for the great reply! I found it extremely helpful and informative. I also checked your site - what a great source of information!

I'm currently trying to find the best balance between speed and quality for one product that I'd like to print approx. 100 times. So as you can imagine every minute counts.

So fat I was printing it with 0,15 layer height (lh) and 0,4 nozzle and it took ages (exactly 10 hours). Now I try 0,2 lh and 0, nozzle. The time has dropped to hours!

I also tried to change the lh from 0,2 to 0,3 with decreased speed but it geve me similar time (5 hours) and I believe the quality would be less satisfying

I just ordered 0,6 nozzle and then will check 0,15 and 0,2 lh. Maybe I'll do it the same with 0,8 nozzle.

I print it with ASA but also want to try PETG. I'm generally satisfied with the result that I got with ASA although I found the first layer (when you look from the bottom) quite strange - like somehow melted. Any ideas what can it be?

The element is below (0,15 lh; 0,4 nozzle)

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

bobstro, i see you use 0.4mm layer height increments, i know thats the optimal for 8mm threaded screw, but did you notice any quality improvement over using stock 0.5mm increments? Example: 0.24mm vs 0.25mm

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

bobstro, i see you use 0.4mm layer height increments, i know thats the optimal for 8mm threaded screw, but did you notice any quality improvement over using stock 0.5mm increments?
I selected those values more-or-less arbitrarily to compare to other prints I've seen. I can't say that I see a difference between 0.15mm and 0.16mm, though I haven't done any real testing. I wouldn't expect to though. With other printers, multiples of 0.4mm or other magic values yield better results due to stepper motor resolution. From what I've found researching the topic, the motors on the Mk3 are good for 0.0025mm resolution, which means any value of 0.XXmm is as good as any other. Out to 2 decimal places in other words.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

[...] I just ordered 0,6 nozzle and then will check 0,15 and 0,2 lh. Maybe I'll do it the same with 0,8 nozzle.That should make a significant difference. There's no point in using a nozzle any smaller than necessary, and doing so will greatly increase print times. Don't use layer heights any thinner than necessary for vertical resolution for the same reason. A small nozzle moving faster will never be faster than a being able to skip movement completely using a larger nozzle.

I'd recommend also trying inexpensive 0.80mm and even 1.00mm nozzles for testing to see if the corner resolution is a problem. To see the impact they can make, create your slicer profiles, slice and save your model and check print times. You might be surprised at the difference a larger nozzle makes even at the same layer heights. Once you've settled on the sizes that work best, the nickel-plated copper nozzles from E3D are supposed to be less prone to PETG and other sticky filaments clinging to the nozzle.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Thanks again! I'll certainly play a little bit wit different settings.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

A couple of examples of the differences you can expect using a larger nozzle. I set up my prints as follows:

I let Slic3rPE figure out extrusion widths based on nozzle size (set to 0 = 1.125 X nozzle size). Here's the result using a 0.40mm nozzle:

And here's the result using a 0.80mm nozzle:

There's a slight difference in vertical surface quality, but the larger nozzle essentially produces the same result (not surprising at the same vertical resolution - layer heights). As to the "speed" difference: Both print in 32-35 minutes. The larger nozzle actually finished ahead of the smaller nozzle despite moving much more slowly. In this case, saving those extra infill lines while still maintaining 20% infill makes the difference. Corners are more rounded on the 0.80mm print, but not grotesquely. For a functional print, the larger nozzle makes a lot of sense.