Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle  

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

copper block, copper/nickel nozzle and titanium heatbreak should help at least a little, right?

Yeah, I guess so. The figures from E3D were before they introduced more exotic parts.

I went through a period of using the plated copper nozzles and I have the plated copper heat blocks, but I did not see the extra value of the nozzles, so back to brass now, and haven't bothered installing the heat blocks - they are in my spares box for the day I may need one.

Peter

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Ok, two questions.

1. Why do you want to turn a mk3 into a low quality extrusion machine?
2. Stop trying to make the poor nozzle do what it's not designed to do.

The advantage of a titanium heatbreak... is that titanium is a TERRIBLE conductor. It's almost an insulator. (something like 3.1% of copper) This keeps the heat where it should be. This will help you, if you are not getting enough heat to your melt zone... which is not likely your problem.

Why are you trying to turn a "normal" e3d v6 hotend, into a volcano? Just go buy a volcano, and slap it on there. Put a extension on your PINDA to hold it lower.

The problem that you are having, is that the "melt zone" on the normal E3D v6 is not long enough. The solution is to increase the melt zone... You do this buy buying a Volcano kit.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

There are advantages in using larger diameter nozzle on this printer, and the nozzles are available, so if somebody wants to do it, then great.

Yes, they will end up with poor quality prints, but those prints will be stronger and print somewhat quicker. With the existing extruder hardware.

Peter

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

There are advantages in using larger diameter nozzle on this printer, and the nozzles are available, so if somebody wants to do it, then great.

Yes, they will end up with poor quality prints, but those prints will be stronger and print somewhat quicker. With the existing extruder hardware.

Peter

+1 on this, people who need simple objects like box, enclosures, etc don't need finer detail, like i said wait 10h for a simple box to finish is painfull. And also for Vase mode is a big advantage, some vases will break due weak/thin layer, some vases are not designed with 1 thin layer in mind, i have printed really strong vases and the otherwise too, depending on the design. MK3 have good specs and i don't think put a large nozzle is kill the machine purpose, if you put a large nozzle on other printers the print quality will be very poor due printer quality/contruction/precision. So mk3 is good for almost everything you can trown on it, if it fit the user porpouse then is OK, and you can always return to 0.4mm nozzle.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

So mk3 is good for almost everything you can trown on it, if it fit the user porpouse then is OK, and you can always return to 0.4mm nozzle.

Absolutely true. I won't disagree with this.

I only say big nozzles destroy the "concept" because.

The mk3 excels at printing small objects, and it's not a "big" printer by today's standards.

When printing large objects, with a "smooth" radius, I actually have to slow down speeds, as my extrusion gets inconsistent. (at 0.2mm layer)

Now, if I was worried about "speed" I could just keep it fast, but "quality" is why I bought my mk3.

I can see you doing single-wall prints, with a larger nozzle, but I don't think a 0.6mm nozzle is a very big "up-step" from a 0.4mm nozzle. You would, in my opinion, want to hit 1.0 or 1.2mm nozzles, but you would then have to slow your speeds down to nearly 10mm/s, with the stock heat-block. Unless you are gunning for the "style" of thick extrusions, I see this as using a ferrari to tow a cattle trailer.

Sure... the Ferrari has the power, no problem there... but... why not use a MUCH cheaper truck?
I'm looking into getting a Mega Volcano for a "summer project", with about a 300$ budget. I expect to be able to hit extrusion rates upwards of 30mm^3/s and maintain quality around 20mm^3/s.

The "summer project" will blow a mk3 out of the water when it comes to large scale printing. (and it will use 2.85mm filament which quite often has VERY good deals on it)

I'm not saying my little 300$ project will comapre with the mk3 on printing ear-rings, and beads... Cause it won't. But at the same time, the mk3, won't compare with it, printing a large part.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

So mk3 is good for almost everything you can trown on it, if it fit the user porpouse then is OK, and you can always return to 0.4mm nozzle.

Absolutely true. I won't disagree with this.

I only say big nozzles destroy the "concept" because.

The mk3 excels at printing small objects, and it's not a "big" printer by today's standards.

When printing large objects, with a "smooth" radius, I actually have to slow down speeds, as my extrusion gets inconsistent. (at 0.2mm layer)

Now, if I was worried about "speed" I could just keep it fast, but "quality" is why I bought my mk3.

I can see you doing single-wall prints, with a larger nozzle, but I don't think a 0.6mm nozzle is a very big "up-step" from a 0.4mm nozzle. You would, in my opinion, want to hit 1.0 or 1.2mm nozzles, but you would then have to slow your speeds down to nearly 10mm/s, with the stock heat-block. Unless you are gunning for the "style" of thick extrusions, I see this as using a ferrari to tow a cattle trailer.

Sure... the Ferrari has the power, no problem there... but... why not use a MUCH cheaper truck?
I'm looking into getting a Mega Volcano for a "summer project", with about a 300$ budget. I expect to be able to hit extrusion rates upwards of 30mm^3/s and maintain quality around 20mm^3/s.

The "summer project" will blow a mk3 out of the water when it comes to large scale printing. (and it will use 2.85mm filament which quite often has VERY good deals on it)

I'm not saying my little 300$ project will comapre with the mk3 on printing ear-rings, and beads... Cause it won't. But at the same time, the mk3, won't compare with it, printing a large part.

0.4 to 0.6 is a small step up indeed, but 0.8 nozzle is a good bet and sit on middle so we can go from 0.3 to 0.6 layer heights, which will cut the print time in almost half on the fastest settings compared to 0.2. At the moment i only print at 0.3mm layer height with the 0.4 stock nozzle, in fact i only used 0.2mm for print mk3 parts, calibrations, tests, an other small pieces, the 0.3mm already produce very good detail for me, parts come out very good looking, a little better than my old MK2S where i notice a bigger difference from 0.2 to 0.3.
My overhangs are most of the time 45º, fillet's 1mm min. so i'm not printing demanding parts. But of corse resolution is always a nice plus to have even if i don't use it, someday i may need it.

That looks a cool project, I also will end in buy another printer for large and fast prints, the CR-10S and put a v6 + volcano + 1.3mm nozzle on it for 1mm layer heights and extrusions, i already have new a 750W AC heatbed here cath some dust, so i can mod the CR10s to be even better as i desire to print ABS. I also have looked at Ender-3 which look a good option for the price but the build volume XY is not that bigger than mk3. But for the price is a strong candidate for such adventures.

i have a question about volcano: How it compare with standard v6 + 0.4mm nozzle VS v6+volcano+0.4mm nozzle? Can a volcano produce the same detail with the 0.4mm nozzle as the standard v6?

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Not tried a 0.8mm, or even seen any prints. Anybody have any to show off?

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

That looks a cool project, I also will end in buy another printer for large and fast prints, the CR-10S and put a v6 + volcano + 1.3mm nozzle on it for 1mm layer heights and extrusions, i already have new a 750W AC heatbed here cath some dust, so i can mod the CR10s to be even better as i desire to print ABS. I also have looked at Ender-3 which look a good option for the price but the build volume XY is not that bigger than mk3. But for the price is a strong candidate for such adventures.

i have a question about volcano: How it compare with standard v6 + 0.4mm nozzle VS v6+volcano+0.4mm nozzle? Can a volcano produce the same detail with the 0.4mm nozzle as the standard v6?

The volcano is literally a different heat block, and nozzle. Otherwise it's the exact same. The smallest Volcano nozzle is 0.6mm (official E3D one at least)

So it can't do a 0.4mm nozzle. HOWEVER... If you could find a way to modify the PINDA holder, it would be as easy as pulling the Thermistor, Heat cartridge, and then taking the Volcano block off, and putting the "stock" block back on.

(and changing the fan shroud, which could actually also hold the PINDA. (No idea if this design exists. Feel free to steal it if anyone wants))

I have *ZERO* plans to put a Volcano on my MK3. My current project is a SNAPPY v3 printer, and that's what my "late" summer project is going to be built out of. (basically the SNAPPY v3, is just a toy, to learn to build my own printer) And attempt to learn to do some more design stuff. The "large scale" printer I will be building will be building a "Piper 1" with some modifications. I had my MK3 sharing a table with the designer of the Piper1 at MRRF2018. I really love the design, except it has a few issues that I think could make it a MUCH better printer. (Frame wise) Going to start out with a Chinese imitation RAMPS setup, and upgrade it either to a Einsy, or a Duet Wifi.
I think a lot of the Mk3 Firmware/Einsy features would be VERY nice, however I think the Duet can do it too, with enough tinkering.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

That looks a cool project, I also will end in buy another printer for large and fast prints, the CR-10S and put a v6 + volcano + 1.3mm nozzle on it for 1mm layer heights and extrusions, i already have new a 750W AC heatbed here cath some dust, so i can mod the CR10s to be even better as i desire to print ABS. I also have looked at Ender-3 which look a good option for the price but the build volume XY is not that bigger than mk3. But for the price is a strong candidate for such adventures.

i have a question about volcano: How it compare with standard v6 + 0.4mm nozzle VS v6+volcano+0.4mm nozzle? Can a volcano produce the same detail with the 0.4mm nozzle as the standard v6?

The volcano is literally a different heat block, and nozzle. Otherwise it's the exact same. The smallest Volcano nozzle is 0.6mm (official E3D one at least)

So it can't do a 0.4mm nozzle. HOWEVER... If you could find a way to modify the PINDA holder, it would be as easy as pulling the Thermistor, Heat cartridge, and then taking the Volcano block off, and putting the "stock" block back on.

(and changing the fan shroud, which could actually also hold the PINDA. (No idea if this design exists. Feel free to steal it if anyone wants))

I have *ZERO* plans to put a Volcano on my MK3. My current project is a SNAPPY v3 printer, and that's what my "late" summer project is going to be built out of. (basically the SNAPPY v3, is just a toy, to learn to build my own printer) And attempt to learn to do some more design stuff. The "large scale" printer I will be building will be building a "Piper 1" with some modifications. I had my MK3 sharing a table with the designer of the Piper1 at MRRF2018. I really love the design, except it has a few issues that I think could make it a MUCH better printer. (Frame wise) Going to start out with a Chinese imitation RAMPS setup, and upgrade it either to a Einsy, or a Duet Wifi.
I think a lot of the Mk3 Firmware/Einsy features would be VERY nice, however I think the Duet can do it too, with enough tinkering.

Have you checked the e3d website for volcano nozzles? They have the 0.4mm there: https://e3d-online.com/volcano-brass-nozzles
"Volcano Nozzles are available to buy seperately in Brass (standard) and Hardened Steel, with 0.4mm, 0.6mm, 0.8mm, 1.0mm, 1.2mm nozzle diameters"
The Piper 3D looks strong and big 😯

The marlin firmware already got lot of features like mk3 which you can use or discard, but of course the prusa firmware is dedicated to one printer model which can end in a better system.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Have you checked the e3d website for volcano nozzles? They have the 0.4mm there: https://e3d-online.com/volcano-brass-nozzles
"Volcano Nozzles are available to buy seperately in Brass (standard) and Hardened Steel, with 0.4mm, 0.6mm, 0.8mm, 1.0mm, 1.2mm nozzle diameters"
The Piper 3D looks strong and big 😯

The marlin firmware already got lot of features like mk3 which you can use or discard, but of course the prusa firmware is dedicated to one printer model which can end in a better system.

Hmm I love when one place they say 0.6-1.2, and in another they have 0.4. lol

For sizing identification, there is on 0.4mm official volcano.
I would honestly expect it to print BETTER than a standard E3D, except for it would likely have more oozing/strining.
(longer melt zone, means more "gravity" above nozzle, even during retraction. (you can not retract molten plastic/resin)

The filament would come out "smoother" and more evenly melted, leading to more consistent extrusion. 🙂
(and you could print at lower temps. I can tell the difference between 215c and 225c. (the 225c looks MUCH better regarding extrusion consistency))

Yeah, the Piper1 is a bit of a beat. Hopefully I meet the guy again at ERRF2018. (I shared a table with him at MRRF2018)
Supposedly he is building a CoreXY printer. (which I think is the ultimate design for FDM currently on the market)

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the Marlin support. That's why I'm thinking a Duet Wifi is likely the best option, given it's only marginally more expensive than the Einsy, but it's a LOT more "powerful".
I'm holding off on final decision however as I can't recall what system a guy I know used, but it ran octopi directly on the printer. It was quite nice. (that, and the "Snappy" I'm gonna exhibit, is just gonna have an el-cheapo RAMPS board on it. due to budget constraints) So I'm not looking into getting the "high end board" until last. Likely I'll have the printer running, before I even order the board.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Hmm I love when one place they say 0.6-1.2, and in another they have 0.4. lol

Maybe the 0.4mm is new and they have not update the site everywhere, but the nozzle product page is always the best place to find out the information.

For sizing identification, there is on 0.4mm official volcano.
I would honestly expect it to print BETTER than a standard E3D, except for it would likely have more oozing/strining.
(longer melt zone, means more "gravity" above nozzle, even during retraction. (you can not retract molten plastic/resin)

The filament would come out "smoother" and more evenly melted, leading to more consistent extrusion. 🙂
(and you could print at lower temps. I can tell the difference between 215c and 225c. (the 225c looks MUCH better regarding extrusion consistency))

Good to hear, i really like that prusa have somekind of dual extruder upgrade on catalog in addition to MMU, a chimera for example, for me is much more usefull and we can run two different systems, one for detail and other for speed and streng (0.4mm + 0.8mm nozzles) and also give other possibilities, i don't like wipe towers and the massive waste in plastic and time. Now imagine two volcanos (0.4mm + 1.2mm) you get the best of two worlds.

Yeah, the Piper1 is a bit of a beat. Hopefully I meet the guy again at ERRF2018. (I shared a table with him at MRRF2018)
Supposedly he is building a CoreXY printer. (which I think is the ultimate design for FDM currently on the market)

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the Marlin support. That's why I'm thinking a Duet Wifi is likely the best option, given it's only marginally more expensive than the Einsy, but it's a LOT more "powerful".
I'm holding off on final decision however as I can't recall what system a guy I know used, but it ran octopi directly on the printer. It was quite nice. (that, and the "Snappy" I'm gonna exhibit, is just gonna have an el-cheapo RAMPS board on it. due to budget constraints) So I'm not looking into getting the "high end board" until last. Likely I'll have the printer running, before I even order the board.

Duet Wifi would be my option too, the 32 bit, more space and more performance this days are needed.
Would be cool to see your project in short a future

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Designs for MK3 volcano starts to show up 😀

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2782716
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2897611

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Designs for MK3 volcano starts to show up 😀

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2782716
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2897611

The 3.5:1 that JLTX is doing, will support volcano in the future too. 😈

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

The 3.5:1 that JLTX is doing, will support volcano in the future too. 😈

I lost the track of that project, not anymore listed on thingyverse. There is anyway i can follow the updates?
On meantime i'm building a 0.8mm profile while i wait for the new nozzles.
I will try this out when i can and report back.

So far my calculated values are:

Even with such low speed, print time (calculated by slic3r) is cut by a lot compared with 0.2 or 0.3 layer heights (0.4mm nozzle)
What would be a minimum acceptable layer height i can print with a 0.8mm nozzle without much trouble?

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

I'm no expert on this, so if anyone else wants to chime in... feel free.

but.

0.4mm nozzle is TOTALLY fine at 0.1mm.

I've printed successfully at 0.05mm, but others have had issues. Maybe filament releated?

So with a 0.8, I would expect 0.1, would be pushing it, and 0.2 would be totally fine.

Once again, No experience on this specifically. I could be totally wrong. 🙂

But I don't see the math being that "wrong".
(I've seen a lulzbot with a 0.6mm nozzle printing at 0.05 as well, but that was a VERY well tuned machine)

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

I'm no expert on this, so if anyone else wants to chime in... feel free.

but.

0.4mm nozzle is TOTALLY fine at 0.1mm.

I've printed successfully at 0.05mm, but others have had issues. Maybe filament releated?

So with a 0.8, I would expect 0.1, would be pushing it, and 0.2 would be totally fine.

Once again, No experience on this specifically. I could be totally wrong. 🙂

But I don't see the math being that "wrong".
(I've seen a lulzbot with a 0.6mm nozzle printing at 0.05 as well, but that was a VERY well tuned machine)

My math goes down to 0.2mm too. Well i will test that out.
So far i have created the 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5 and 0.6 layer heights profiles. On every profile i never pass the 10m3/s v6 limit. Lets see how this will go.

On the default 0.2mm profile that comes with slic3r beta the infill is passing the v6 limit with (15.3mm3/s) --> 170mm/s * 0.45 * 0.2
The strange fact is that i have a 0.3mm profile that i copy from 0.2mm and that means the infill goes to (22.95mm3/s) --> 170mm/s * 0.45 * 0.3, and my prints always come good, no skiping or extruder clicking, layers are complete and no missing extrusions. The only problems i had is with a old prusa silver PLA that i had with more than 2 years open... Maybe the problems are there i don't know, but layers seens well bound and strong to me.
Now i have reduced my 0.3mm profile to 70mm/s max speed, haven't test to see if any difference but now it's below the v6 limit

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

Mathematically 0.05mm layer height should work with 0.8mm nozzle. Unless you were printing extreme overhangs. I would question using a big nozzle at low layer heights.

Regards Joan

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

The 3.5:1 that JLTX is doing, will support volcano in the future too. 😈

I lost the track of that project, not anymore listed on thingyverse. There is anyway i can follow the updates?
On meantime i'm building a 0.8mm profile while i wait for the new nozzles.
I will try this out when i can and report back.

So far my calculated values are:

Even with such low speed, print time (calculated by slic3r) is cut by a lot compared with 0.2 or 0.3 layer heights (0.4mm nozzle)
What would be a minimum acceptable layer height i can print with a 0.8mm nozzle without much trouble?

Thingiverse is kinda silly sometimes, it's on his profile and here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2845416
Not sure if the Inconsistent Extrusion tread is still active, but I know he's working on a beta version right now.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

If some of you all are wondering how the the print quality of larger diameter volcano nozzles (including 1.2mm) compare to what you're used to, this guy made a bunch of different benchies and owls to show how they compare:

Also, on the topic of oozing that was speculated upon above, sensei Tom Sananderer says there is actually much less with the volcano, and he gives his reasons as to why:

FWIW, I have exactly the same sentiments and motivations as the OP of this thread.

There are already youtube videos showing step by step how to do the upgrade for a CR10. I haven't found any for the I3 MK3. I'd love to do the upgrade, but I have a lot of unanswered questions:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles--f65/is-the-24v-volcano-heater-block-the-correct-match--t18527.html#p86421

and I don't feel like blazing this particular trail by myself.

Re: Mk3 + 0.8mm nozzle

If some of you all are wondering how the the print quality of larger diameter volcano nozzles (including 1.2mm) compare to what you're used to, this guy made a bunch of different benchies and owls to show how they compare:

Also, on the topic of oozing that was speculated upon above, sensei Tom Sananderer says there is actually much less with the volcano, and he gives his reasons as to why:

FWIW, I have exactly the same sentiments and motivations as the OP of this thread.

There are already youtube videos showing step by step how to do the upgrade for a CR10. I haven't found any for the I3 MK3. I'd love to do the upgrade, but I have a lot of unanswered questions:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles--f65/is-the-24v-volcano-heater-block-the-correct-match--t18527.html#p86421

and I don't feel like blazing this particular trail by myself.

I saw that video, from the layer height you can see how it comes, but at a quality perspective you can't, only if the guy use a MK3.

I already have a spare 0.8mm nozzle here for my mk3, but i decide to buy another printer, so i can mess with it first, a Ender-3.
First i will tune and upgrade Ender-3, then start to print regulary on that with 0.8mm nozzle.
Good thing is theres a Volcano design for CR10, which is compatible with Ender-3 and others, so after master the 0.8mm nozzle i will upgrade to Volcano. Test 0.4mm there and if it went good i will consider upgrade my MK3.
We need to print big and fast we want production at home! 😀