Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?  

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

You will need to tune all your profiles for the hardened steel nozzle, brass is a much better heat conductor so the temperature of the nozzle will be closer to the temperature reported by the thermistor, which is actually the temperature of the heater block. A silicon sock may help as it will reduce the effect of the part cooling fan on the nozzle.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

Useful point - although surely this points back to having one - ie once I've dialled in the right settings, I don't need to worry about changing them depending on nozzle??

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

Considering how cheap brass nozzles are, I can't think of any advantage to using a hardened nozzle.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I like the hardened nozzles cause I dont have to swap them out if printing with glow filament or other abrasive filaments.
I have been using these https://filaments.ca/products/e3d-v6-hercules-a2-tool-steel-hardened-nozzle
They work great and required no tuning when switching from brass.
Cheers,
Jon

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

Are there any advantages to other nozzles - eg are they more accurate or precise for example?


Considering how cheap brass nozzles are, I can't think of any advantage to using a hardened nozzle.

the heat conductivity is downplayed by most people, but if you're printing big chunky layers at decent speed you *will* notice it. I just had a big part (.3 @ 120mms +) in 870 pla de-laminate and fall apart in my hands. It was printed at 240C. sock and a good pid tune are a must.

there are other options as well like e3d copper/nickle for even better conductivity, or e3d NozzleX for use with filled/nonfilled filaments.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

Many people think brass nozzles wear out almost immediately you start printing with abrasives. They don't. They just wear out a bit quicker that's all. Of course, my definition of "a bit quicker" might not be the same as yours. 🙂

I printed a number of parts in CF and wood, took the brass nozzle out and compared it with new. There was no noticeable difference between the two at that stage.

But what works for you is ultimately what is best 😀

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I'm going to post the contrarian view. I generally don't notice much of a difference between hardened and non-hardened nozzles. I use them mostly at larger sizes (0.60 and 0.80mm) and am doing large functional prints, so YMMV and will surely vary for smaller prints. Bumping temps 5C is usually a fix for any issues.

While the wear factor for brass may be overblown (based on what I've seen, it's not), I'd really rather not risk the filament and time involved in a big print with something that's difficult to detect and troubleshoot. I may save $15 with brass, but spend several times that much troubleshooting and chasing quality problems when using very expensive filled materials. If I'm printing stuff that costs $40 for 750g, I'm not going to sweat a $20 nozzle.

The good news is that E3D's Nozzle-X will be available soon, and may eliminate the need to make these sorts of trade-offs. I'm also trying out P3-D's various flavors of hardened nozzles.

Just for kicks, I'm trying some of the AliExpress hardened 1.25 and 1.50mm nozzles on my i3, but expectations are low for the craptastic nozzles.

If I'm not trying something new out, I tend to keep a 0.60mm hardened steel nozzle mounted. 0.60 is the new 0.40.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I was advised to try the e3d plated copper heat block with the nozzle X 0.6 I have on order...(and I have a friend using the $70 super heater https://www.printedsolid.com/products/e3d-high-temperature-65w-heater-cartridge in a copper block with copper nozzle for his take on a volcano and he loves it ) right now I like the e3d plated copper 0.4 nozzle for its improvement in rejecting stuck on plastic that comes off and ruins prints or means some post printing sanding.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

Many people think brass nozzles wear out almost immediately you start printing with abrasives. They don't. They just wear out a bit quicker that's all. Of course, my definition of "a bit quicker" might not be the same as yours. 🙂

I printed a number of parts in CF and wood, took the brass nozzle out and compared it with new. There was no noticeable difference between the two at that stage.

i'd call a quarter of a roll pretty quick https://e3d-online.com/blog/2015/09/09/is-carbon-killing-your-nozzle/

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

You can call it what you like. There are so many variables in the printing game that there is no one size, or even several. I've done my test as I described so that is all that matters, for me. For the OP, they have to make up their own mind for what works best for them.

In any case, changing nozzles is hardly problematic. Using the same type of nozzle for (almost) all materials eliminates one of those many variables. You can buy a brass nozzle for cents. Easy peasy. 😛

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

for heat tranfer times:
if you wait longer , your nozzle will be hot enough
and what takes long to heat up, will also take long to cool down.

so it might actually help in that perspective

but why not take the ruby nozzle... im very happy with that part for the .4

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I've been watching this thread for a few days and it just hit me: hardened steel nozzles tend to be stickier than brass when it comes to PETG. Just anecdotal experience, really. I'll be trying the new CarbonX nozzle from E3D when it comes out in February. I like the idea of never having to swap nozzles, but I want something that PETG won't stick to, as well.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I've been watching this thread for a few days and it just hit me: hardened steel nozzles tend to be stickier than brass when it comes to PETG. Just anecdotal experience, really. I'll be trying the new CarbonX nozzle from E3D when it comes out in February. I like the idea of never having to swap nozzles, but I want something that PETG won't stick to, as well.
I'm trying a couple of P3-D nozzles out this week. Right now, I've got a 1.00mm Atlas-series mounted which is advertised as providing 50% better thermal performance than brass while being 5X more durable and coated with their DuraPlat-3d coating. So far, I've printed about 25 hours with PETG using it, and I've not had any problems. It's not an exact competitor for the E3D Nozzle-X (also on order) but definitely one to try.

I've also got a 1.00mm Hercules in the drawer, which has the same coating, but in hardened steel. It advertises 25X more durability, but a fraction of the thermal performance. I'll post an update once I get some experience with this one.

I've got some dreadful looking AliExpress hardened steel nozzles that I'll try when I'm bored one day. They definitely look like stuff will stick all over 'em.

I've used E3D's regular hardened steel nozzles and haven't had any particularly bad issues with PETG sticking. I do try to make a point of giving any nozzle a clean before every print. A silicone sock for the heater block, while a bit risky, definitely helps keep the hotend cleaner.

P3-D has an interesting customer testimonial written by a guy doing CF car parts. Basically, he was swapping nozzles for every spool of ABS CF filament due to declining quality. Interestingly, he notes that horizontal surfaces tend to be the killers. He's got pics that show the deterioration. Using a hardened nozzle, he's up to 25 spools and counting without issues.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

Heheh! Glad I asked, very interesting discussion!

Think Nozzle-X sounds like a winner if it does everything it's promising!!

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I just got a .4mm Nozzle-X and I'm having trouble getting it set up perfectly. It doesn't transfer heat from the block very well so at high speeds (above ~100mm/s) it starts underextruding and having delamination issues. Right now the winner seems to be ~150mm/s at 220C for PLA, but I haven't finished experimenting with it.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I just got a .4mm Nozzle-X and I'm having trouble getting it set up perfectly. It doesn't transfer heat from the block very well so at high speeds (above ~100mm/s) it starts underextruding and having delamination issues. Right now the winner seems to be ~150mm/s at 220C for PLA, but I haven't finished experimenting with it.

Been running one for a couple of weeks now and am starting to think it performs better if I increase the temps by ~10C from what I usually print at though have to say I haven't experienced the issues you are having even at lower temps.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

I just got a .4mm Nozzle-X and I'm having trouble getting it set up perfectly. It doesn't transfer heat from the block very well so at high speeds (above ~100mm/s) it starts underextruding and having delamination issues. Right now the winner seems to be ~150mm/s at 220C for PLA, but I haven't finished experimenting with it.

Been running one for a couple of weeks now and am starting to think it performs better if I increase the temps by ~10C from what I usually print at though have to say I haven't experienced the issues you are having even at lower temps.

I'm only getting these issues on larger parts where the printer can accelerate to its max speed, on smaller parts I have few issues printing at "normal" temperatures.

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

.......

I'm only getting these issues on larger parts where the printer can accelerate to its max speed, on smaller parts I have few issues printing at "normal" temperatures.

Maybe you got one of the nozzles with the obround drillings though E3d says it's not an issue ( https://e3d-online.com/blog/2019/02/12/appearances-can-be-deceiving/ ) ... I got my printer early Jan of 18 and this is the first nozzle I put in it since and have noticed quite an improvement in print quality since replacing the nozzle. I don't know if it's because the Nozzle-X is that much better or if my old nozzle was just worn or some combination of both. I've read that hardened nozzles need to run at higher temps to perform the same as brass but didn't up temps after I first installed mine. I found the improvement by accident when I switched from Makergeeks PETG, print temps of 255C to Amazon Basics PETG, 245C, and forgot to change my filament profile. I was thinking the prints looked great then realized what was going on. Switching to the Amazon profile made the prints look slightly worse so I now print at higher temperatures. I hope you're able to get this sorted out...

From comments on the Nozzle X blog post...

Hey! I don't know if I can ask questions here, but I was wondering: How is the heat capacity/transfer on this nozzle? I currently swap between brass and hardened steel nozzles as necessary. To achieve same results, I print PLA at 200 °C with brass and 210 °C with hardened steel. Was just wondering if its closer to brass or hardened steel in this sense.
Reply ↓

Thanks for your message! The Nozzle X is closer to hardened steel in this sense.

Thanks, E3D

https://e3d-online.com/blog/2018/11/23/nozzle-x-the-one-to-rule-them-all/

Re: Any reason NOT to have a hardened steel nozzle?

.......

I'm only getting these issues on larger parts where the printer can accelerate to its max speed, on smaller parts I have few issues printing at "normal" temperatures.

Maybe you got one of the nozzles with the obround drillings though E3d says it's not an issue ( https://e3d-online.com/blog/2019/02/12/appearances-can-be-deceiving/ ) ... I got my printer early Jan of 18 and this is the first nozzle I put in it since and have noticed quite an improvement in print quality since replacing the nozzle. I don't know if it's because the Nozzle-X is that much better or if my old nozzle was just worn or some combination of both. I've read that hardened nozzles need to run at higher temps to perform the same as brass but didn't up temps after I first installed mine. I found the improvement by accident when I switched from Makergeeks PETG, print temps of 255C to Amazon Basics PETG, 245C, and forgot to change my filament profile. I was thinking the prints looked great then realized what was going on. Switching to the Amazon profile made the prints look slightly worse so I now print at higher temperatures. I hope you're able to get this sorted out...

From comments on the Nozzle X blog post...

Hey! I don't know if I can ask questions here, but I was wondering: How is the heat capacity/transfer on this nozzle? I currently swap between brass and hardened steel nozzles as necessary. To achieve same results, I print PLA at 200 °C with brass and 210 °C with hardened steel. Was just wondering if its closer to brass or hardened steel in this sense.
Reply ↓

Thanks for your message! The Nozzle X is closer to hardened steel in this sense.

Thanks, E3D

https://e3d-online.com/blog/2018/11/23/nozzle-x-the-one-to-rule-them-all/

I'm not noticing any other problems beside the delamination and underextrusion at high speeds and stock temps, so I doubt the issue is nozzle geometry.
My cooling fan is also a little deformed from printing PC and might be directed at the nozzle slightly, I'm printing the parts for the MK3S upgrade this week so I'll see if that's contributing to the issue.