Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle
 
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Bas
 Bas
(@bas-2)
Eminent Member
Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

I'll be receiving my MK3 kit late januari, and I ordered a 0.4mm hardened steel E3D nozzle to go along with it, since next to regular PLA I intend to be printing with a variety of PLA composite filaments. Rather than switch out the nozzle every time I switch filament types, I'm wondering if I can just build the kit using the hardened steel nozzle instead of the brass one it ships with. Are there any downsides to using the hardened steel nozzle instead of the supplied when printing with non-composite filaments?

Posted : 08/01/2018 11:33 am
ir_fuel
(@ir_fuel)
Estimable Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Don't 🙂

Been there, done that.
Brass conducts heat a lot better than hardened steel and you'll have less issues printing PLA with brass than with the hardened nozzle.
Just swap it out when you want to print abrasive stuff.

I think the Ruby Nozzle might solve this, as it is brass, but I haven't tried it myself.

BTW the nozzle will already be installed, even in the kit 😉

Posted : 08/01/2018 11:51 am
vaxxi
(@vaxxi)
Estimable Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

From reading around, it seems the steel nozzle is slower to heat up, a bit more difficult to keep at a steady temp and can make some materials flow "rougher" (lower quality surfaces in prints).

Posted : 08/01/2018 11:53 am
GertL
(@gertl)
Reputable Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Im using a hardend steel nozzle from E3D, i cannot see any diffrence at all.
All my "brass" settings works just fine.

---
Gert

Posted : 08/01/2018 1:20 pm
RH_Dreambox
(@rh_dreambox)
Prominent Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

If you want a nozzle that can handle the wear of composite filament you should have The Olsson Ruby.
http://olssonruby.com/design-quality/

Bear MK3 with Bondtech extruder

Posted : 08/01/2018 2:16 pm
Bas
 Bas
(@bas-2)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

I'm pretty sure that for the price of one Olsson Ruby I could wear down many, many hardened steel E3D nozzles. It's cool, but not even remotely in my price range.

I guess I'll experiment with switching out the nozzles and seeing if I can detect any difference. Is replacing the nozzle a difficult or time consuming process?

Posted : 09/01/2018 6:01 pm
dryja123
(@dryja123)
Honorable Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Just make sure you replace the nozzle properly. You will not be able to replace the nozzle until the kit is fully assembled and the extruder preheated. Attempting to replace the nozzle cold will result in damaging the extruder.

Posted : 09/01/2018 6:57 pm
I'm no Filament Frenzy
(@im-no-filament-frenzy)
Eminent Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

I got an Olsson Ruby nozzle in Matterhackers Blue Friday Sale and spoke to @Josefprusa about fitting it during my build and he suggested that i sholud build with supplied nozzle and get the machine dialed in before changing anything to non standard.
So that's what i did, but just yesterday i did the upgrade and this is how.....

Posted : 09/01/2018 7:14 pm
stephan.w
(@stephan-w)
Active Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Hi!

I went with a compromize of heat transfer and wear resistance:
https://store.micro-swiss.com/collections/original-prusa-i3-mk2/products/reprap-m6-thread-e3d-olsson-block-j-head

No problems so far...

Posted : 09/01/2018 9:49 pm
sworcester
(@sworcester)
Eminent Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle


Im using a hardend steel nozzle from E3D, i cannot see any diffrence at all.
All my "brass" settings works just fine.

Exactly. I use Performance 3-d Hercules nozzles and havent changed anything.
once its hot, hout would have to throw a lot of fan and extrusion speed at it to change the the capabilities.

Posted : 12/01/2018 1:15 am
kenneth.f4
(@kenneth-f4)
Active Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

+1 for the ruby, you might be able to use multiple steel nozzles one for the price but they won't perform as well thermally and you're not going to replace that ruby at any point either. That being said, it will still work and if the accuracy isn't a high of a requirement then it's a better choice.

Posted : 12/01/2018 6:28 am
rufflez
(@rufflez)
Estimable Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Fwiw, I use hardened steel nozzle in my mk2 24/7. I love it. I haven't printed with composite material yet, but I plan on doing so. I'm sure the Ruby nozzle is nice, I just can't justify that cost for me yet. If I was printing carbon fiber 24/7, I'm sure I could pay for the Ruby nozzle in no time, but I'm not. I got it for some Glow in the dark PETG that I wanted to try and my brass nozzle got clogged.

Another advantage of the hardened steel is that you can clean it out with heat. Clogged with filament from a failed print? Pull the sucker out and use a torch to melt the plastic away... Prints like new. Brass may not handle the heat as well and may warp if you hold it close to the flame for too long.

Posted : 12/01/2018 5:30 pm
GertL
(@gertl)
Reputable Member
Re: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Pull the sucker out and use a torch to melt the plastic away...

Wouldn't the hardening disappear if you heat it up to much (annealing)? Maybe I've got it wrong.

---
Gert

Posted : 13/01/2018 10:13 am
ZombiPach
(@zombipach)
Eminent Member
RE: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

@gert-l

Not knowing the grade of steel or exact temper already on it makes exact numbers/times difficult, but it's safe to say that a standard mild steel needs to be heated to 1400 degrees for some time and cooled very specifically to anneal. Knowing the melting point of the filament is much lower than that, as long as you don't get the tip red hot, you should be fine. A lighter would likely be adequate. YMMV

Posted : 06/02/2020 5:06 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Until you get used to your new MK3, I highly suggest sticking with the stock brass nozzle.

You will have enough things to tune and get used to without worrying about the effect of a different nozzle.

Give it a couple of weeks at least.

The Olsen is nifty - but fragile. Bad thing to chip, cleaning out a jam.

Posted : 06/02/2020 6:08 pm
Jeremy liked
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Using hardened steel nozzle instead of supplied nozzle

Definitely read up and understand the E3D nozzle changing procedure before trying a nozzle swap. Not to discourage anybody wanting to try new nozzles. Getting past the angst over swapping nozzles was one of the best things I did early on (prompted by some self-inflicted jams). The bit about ensuring there is a gap between the nozzle hex and heater block is critical. Other than that, dive in. I've got some notes on using different nozzles that you might find interesting.

As for nozzles, I'm very happy with P3-D's Apollo series. They're somewhere between brass and hardened steel in terms of hardness -- not really suited for abrasives but more durable than brass -- and cost but have excellent thermal characteristics and the coating helps keep the molten filament off. Their more expensive Hercules is true hardened steel, but with the typical thermal characteristics of that material. Also coated though, so much easier to work with than an uncoated nozzle for sticky filaments like PETG. I have a couple of Nozzle-X, and while they're excellent, they're ultimately coated hardened steel. A bit pricey unless you're printing at very high temps. I'm avoiding the ruby after reading some of the horror stories, but am considering the Tungsten Carbide nozzles for a best-of-all-worlds approach.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 06/02/2020 11:33 pm
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