[Zamknięte] I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+  

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Before we all go down this path again and derail this thread with angst, go do a search for the "Bait and switch" thread. Every argument against the MK3 is there if you're interested in the details.

Well, you don't need to participate if you don't wish to, but a few of us get sick and tired of some of the rhetoric that people espouse, trying to pass it off as fact.

Besides, the largely useless comments made also referred to the Ultimaker, so it wasn't just directed at the Prusa. I would be keen to know (as presumably the OP would be as well) what all these negative deal breakers actually are, from both printers. ❓

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Well, you don't need to participate if you don't wish to, but a few of us get sick and tired of some of the rhetoric that people espouse, trying to pass it off as fact.

Can't speak to the Ultimaker, but here's a 22 page thread of facts to confirm our claims of the MK3's performance issues: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/poor-print-quality-t12438.html

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Well, you don't need to participate if you don't wish to, but a few of us get sick and tired of some of the rhetoric that people espouse, trying to pass it off as fact.

Can't speak to the Ultimaker, but here's a 22 page thread of facts to confirm our claims of the MK3's performance issues: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/poor-print-quality-t12438.html

OP asked those questions in related to which printer would be better suited for nylon prints. I searched the 22 page thread for nylon and nothing came up.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Well, you don't need to participate if you don't wish to, but a few of us get sick and tired of some of the rhetoric that people espouse, trying to pass it off as fact.

Can't speak to the Ultimaker, but here's a 22 page thread of facts to confirm our claims of the MK3's performance issues: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/poor-print-quality-t12438.html

OP asked those questions in related to which printer would be better suited for nylon prints. I searched the 22 page thread for nylon and nothing came up.

You are correct. I forgot vibration issues only apply to PLA and PETG.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Well, you don't need to participate if you don't wish to, but a few of us get sick and tired of some of the rhetoric that people espouse, trying to pass it off as fact.

Can't speak to the Ultimaker, but here's a 22 page thread of facts to confirm our claims of the MK3's performance issues: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/poor-print-quality-t12438.html

The fact there are some people with issues is a big problem, for PR and for the owners concerned. But you cannot draw any other conclusions from that, unless of course you have info that is not publicly available.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

You are correct. I forgot vibration issues only apply to PLA and PETG.

I wouldn't know because I don't have vibration issues.

To get this thread back on topic:

I can't speak for the UM2 because I only have experience with the Mk3 and the MP Mini V2

Reliability: The Mk3 is a brand new device still on the cutting edge. There are well documented bugs and there will be plenty of part revisions and firmware tweaks in the near future. I have no idea how well the Mk3 prints nylon because I haven't seen a lot of material on it yet.

Upgradability: I think the Mk3 would win here. Once again, I can't speak for the UM2 though.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

If you want to print flexible (or other fancy) materials buy an MK3 because the Ultimaker uses Bowden System.

If you want a Printer which can print a few “standard” materials and you want to do as less parameter tweaking as possible buy the Ultimaker.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Well, you don't need to participate if you don't wish to, but a few of us get sick and tired of some of the rhetoric that people espouse, trying to pass it off as fact.

lol @ facts.

People like you spout off about facts but apparently wouldn't know a fact if it came up and literally bit you in the face.

You're floating in a sea of facts wondering where the facts are.

If you want facts, at least for the MK3, head straight to github. There have been literal errors found in the parts. Not opinions, but measurable, quantifiable, verifiable (and fixable) facts. Most of these have been already pointed out here in the forums, so if you're still playing dumb, that's your problem.

Furthermore, look at the construction of OP's questions.

Is the framing of his questions going to generate answers which are facts or opinions?

It's because consumer whores don't want facts. They want tacit emotional approval.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

@Brigandier,Rob,gz1: The question is knowing all the bugs and hassle with your MK3, would you recommend OP to buy a MK3 or are you saying stay away from this product?

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

@Brigandier,Rob,gz1: The question is knowing all the bugs and hassle with your MK3, would you recommend OP to buy a MK3 or are you saying stay away from this product?

For any business use case stay away, or wait a few months for fixes to come down the line. At the price the MK3 is sitting at, it's only worth it when the advanced features are working as advertised. You aren't just paying cash for this right now, you are paying cash plus hours labor reprinting parts and working around issues.

For a hobbyist that is overjoyed at tweaking and wants to contribute to an eventually sweet printer, then maybe. I am having some fun with that side of it, but I didn't go into it wanting that. I specifically spent extra for the advanced features that were showcased as working on YouTube, blog, etc. As it is I have to run with crash detection off from fear of it ruining a print. The filament sensor has to stay off from fear of false positives pausing long prints. Linear advance only if I want to sacrifice Octoprint. Vibration issues, bearing issues, etc.

Once you turn these off to get to an acceptable reliability (or buy your way out, in regards to decent bearings and vibration), you quickly discover you could have spent less for the same thing. I am hoping and working every evening to try to help get this printer to that awesome point, but I would rather be putting that time into printing other things at the quality that was expected.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

For any business use case stay away, or wait a few months for fixes to come down the line. At the price the MK3 is sitting at, it's only worth it when the advanced features are working as advertised. You aren't just paying cash for this right now, you are paying cash plus hours labor reprinting parts and working around issues.

For a hobbyist that is overjoyed at tweaking and wants to contribute to an eventually sweet printer, then maybe. I am having some fun with that side of it, but I didn't go into it wanting that. I specifically spent extra for the advanced features that were showcased as working on YouTube, blog, etc. As it is I have to run with crash detection off from fear of it ruining a print. The filament sensor has to stay off from fear of false positives pausing long prints. Linear advance only if I want to sacrifice Octoprint. Vibration issues, bearing issues, etc.

Once you turn these off to get to an acceptable reliability (or buy your way out, in regards to decent bearings and vibration), you quickly discover you could have spent less for the same thing. I am hoping and working every evening to try to help get this printer to that awesome point, but I would rather be putting that time into printing other things at the quality that was expected.

Well I have read that thread and it worries me! It makes me wonder if I should be asking I3 MK2S? I cant afford a printer that wont work as I am not experienced enough to sort them out. I don't mind trying to fix printing issues (but even these reduced to a minimum would be preferable) as I want to spend my time developing the items I want to print.

Thanks for your help and observations everyone. I appreciate your time and honesty.

Regards

Mick

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

As an owner of both as well I can tell you that it depends on what you expect from a printer. My UM2+ started out as an UM2 about 4 years ago. Thats 4 years, 1600 hours of printing and 1.9km of filament. All without major issues. Only maintenance I have is lubricate things. It is built like a tank and still works without a hitch.

I like the MK3's features, just like I did my MK2 when I bought that, but it is pretty clear to me that it will require tinkering (mine arrived with the "faulty" X-idler pulley and is currently eating it's own belt). So that, just like things on my MK2, will require work.

So for me it comes down to: How much money do you want to spend, do you mind tinkering or do you prefer more hands-off? I like my 3 printers for various reasons, so it really depends on your own preferences.

I find that the UM "just works"(tm), but even back then it was almost 3 times the price of a Prusa nowadays.
Back then I didn't know anything of 3D printing so it was a good machine for me.
Over the course of 4 years I picked up a lot and got over my fear of using a screwdriver and changing things (tried different extruders and so on on the UM2, ended by upgrading it to the UM2+). If I had to buy a printer now with what I know now, I'd keep the rest of my money and go for the MK3, but only because I'm not scared of taking it apart (I'm pretty sure I will need to).

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Over the course of 4 years I picked up a lot and got over my fear of using a screwdriver and changing things (tried different extruders and so on on the UM2, ended by upgrading it to the UM2+). If I had to buy a printer now with what I know now, I'd keep the rest of my money and go for the MK3, but only because I'm not scared of taking it apart (I'm pretty sure I will need to).

+1 to this. DIY maintenance is going to be part of the MK3 experience, and if that's a problem for you then this is not the printer you want.

I have about six years experience with hobby 3D printers, but my MK3 is my first kit. I have no doubt that my experience with prebuilt printers helped me put the kit together better because I understand how everything is supposed to work and I've had lots of chances to disassemble and reassemble my other printers. My MK3 worked perfectly the first time, and has about 50 hours on it so far without any problems (knock on wood).

I also have no doubt that some percentage (not all!) the problems people are reporting with their MK3's in this forum are because of assembly mistakes. Troubleshooting a 3D printer can be a real challenge, if for no other reason than the fact that so many different things can go wrong.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

As an owner of both as well I can tell you that it depends on what you expect from a printer. My UM2+ started out as an UM2 about 4 years ago. Thats 4 years, 1600 hours of printing and 1.9km of filament. All without major issues. Only maintenance I have is lubricate things. It is built like a tank and still works without a hitch.

I like the MK3's features, just like I did my MK2 when I bought that, but it is pretty clear to me that it will require tinkering (mine arrived with the "faulty" X-idler pulley and is currently eating it's own belt). So that, just like things on my MK2, will require work.

So for me it comes down to: How much money do you want to spend, do you mind tinkering or do you prefer more hands-off? I like my 3 printers for various reasons, so it really depends on your own preferences.

I find that the UM "just works"(tm), but even back then it was almost 3 times the price of a Prusa nowadays.
Back then I didn't know anything of 3D printing so it was a good machine for me.
Over the course of 4 years I picked up a lot and got over my fear of using a screwdriver and changing things (tried different extruders and so on on the UM2, ended by upgrading it to the UM2+). If I had to buy a printer now with what I know now, I'd keep the rest of my money and go for the MK3, but only because I'm not scared of taking it apart (I'm pretty sure I will need to).

Yeah, so he should just get the UM2 if it's NEW but it's not so that's one factor to consider.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

As an owner of both as well I can tell you that it depends on what you expect from a printer. My UM2+ started out as an UM2 about 4 years ago. Thats 4 years, 1600 hours of printing and 1.9km of filament. All without major issues. Only maintenance I have is lubricate things. It is built like a tank and still works without a hitch.

I like the MK3's features, just like I did my MK2 when I bought that, but it is pretty clear to me that it will require tinkering (mine arrived with the "faulty" X-idler pulley and is currently eating it's own belt). So that, just like things on my MK2, will require work.

So for me it comes down to: How much money do you want to spend, do you mind tinkering or do you prefer more hands-off? I like my 3 printers for various reasons, so it really depends on your own preferences.

I find that the UM "just works"(tm), but even back then it was almost 3 times the price of a Prusa nowadays.
Back then I didn't know anything of 3D printing so it was a good machine for me.
Over the course of 4 years I picked up a lot and got over my fear of using a screwdriver and changing things (tried different extruders and so on on the UM2, ended by upgrading it to the UM2+). If I had to buy a printer now with what I know now, I'd keep the rest of my money and go for the MK3, but only because I'm not scared of taking it apart (I'm pretty sure I will need to).

Steve, thank you for replying, i really di appreciate your time and effort to do so.

I have been on the brink of ordering the Mk3 since Christmas but then a friend loaned me his Mk2. Then I was offered a UM2+!!!

With your experience can I ask you two things please;

When the Mk3 is running is it at least as good as your Mk2, as the Mk2S is still an option. I would like to order the Mk3 but as a novice I really cant get a printer with problems as I just would not know what to do or have the available hours to spend a lot of time on it.

Appart from the unpack and use of the UM2, does it print any better than the Mk2 (build quality and speed).

Thanks again for your time, I hope you have time to come back on these also.

Regards

Mick

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

...
When the Mk3 is running is it at least as good as your Mk2, as the Mk2S is still an option. I would like to order the Mk3 but as a novice I really cant get a
...

It's very simple. Deactivate all fancy features on your MK3 and you will have a better MK2s because of the better driver and removable spring sheet. wouldn't buy MK2S if MK3 is in your budget.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

Yeah, so he should just get the UM2 if it's NEW but it's not so that's one factor to consider.

Very true, but mine is 4 years old and I haven't had a decline in print quality since then. Obviously it's not because mine survived this long that any other one will do so as well. Secondhand is always a risk, especially if there's no warranty anymore.

When the Mk3 is running is it at least as good as your Mk2, as the Mk2S is still an option. I would like to order the Mk3 but as a novice I really cant get a printer with problems as I just would not know what to do or have the available hours to spend a lot of time on it.

I wouldn't go for an MK2S now that the MK3 is released. There are way too much improvements (magnetic bed, filament sensors, crash detection, power outage recovery etc) that you'll never have on the 2 unless you completely upgrade it.
What I would do if I were you (and didn't want to spend too much time tinkering) is just wait buying one until its at least delivered with the R2 parts.

Appart from the unpack and use of the UM2, does it print any better than the Mk2 (build quality and speed).

To be honest I've always found my UM prints a little bit better than the ones from Prusa, but that is a personal preference.
In the end I find that all my printers deliver more than adequate quality.

And, sorry but whining mode on ...

One other thing, and I'll probably get a sh*tload of comments about this, but I find the UM support a lot better than Prusa's.
Prusa responds really quickly to easy questions, but for anything challenging I either get no reply or a very late one.

For example: When I mailed them about the twisting belt on the x carriage, the "instant" reply was to check if the pulley wasn't mounted reversed (it was a preassembled machine, which I mentioned).

I replied that it was mounted correctly and also mentioned that it looked like the idler on the other end was tilted forwards and caused the belt to almost go off every time.
Unfortunately I made the mistake of asking another question, since my PSU started making a really loud whining noise at that moment.
The reply said that the "whining would be resolved via a firmware patch" (heu?) and never actually said anything anymore about the belt.

I later found there was a topic in the forum about the idler wheel not being 90º. That was partially causing an issue. Imo that means they had to have known about it but chose to not divulge it to customers. The fact that I asked on twitter first, directed @josefprusa, with a video and never got a reaction only reinforces this, as that account likes almost every positive tweet out there.

whining mode off
Don't get me wrong, I love both my Prusa printers and they are churning out magnificent pieces on a daily basis, just being honest here and stating there is always room for improvement.

Edit:

Thought that I'd add some of my latest Prusa prints to illustrate how well these can perform 🙂

All of these are from either my MK3 or my MK2S-MM

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

As an owner of both as well I can tell you that it depends on what you expect from a printer. My UM2+ started out as an UM2 about 4 years ago. Thats 4 years, 1600 hours of printing and 1.9km of filament. All without major issues. Only maintenance I have is lubricate things. It is built like a tank and still works without a hitch.

Just been informed that the UM2+ (which was a UM2) has about 2,500 hours on it - so a degree of caution is comming to me!! What are Ultimaker parts like to source replacements?

Nice photos of the items by the Mk3. Have you ever used it for nylon? I wondered how it performed with that?

Great info guys, keep it up!!!

M

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

2500 hours of print time does seem a lot for something that is pure mechanical, I figure chances are pretty real it's not going to last for years anymore.

As for nylon, sorry haven't printed with that. Use my prusa printers mostly for PLA but I did ABS and PETG already and that works just fine. It's all a temperatures game and that E3D-v6 hotend is awesome.

Re: I3 MK3 or Ultimaker 2+

2500 hours of print time does seem a lot for something that is pure mechanical, I figure chances are pretty real it's not going to last for years anymore.

As for nylon, sorry haven't printed with that. Use my prusa printers mostly for PLA but I did ABS and PETG already and that works just fine. It's all a temperatures game and that E3D-v6 hotend is awesome.

Steve, I really do appreciate your time and knowledge in posting here. I am a complete novice so your replies are extremely helpful - you have my thanks.

Just one more question if you manage to get the time to reply, what is the maximum safe temperature for the nozzle and the heat bed on the Mk3?

My thanks again.

Mick