Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot
 
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aowilkie
(@aowilkie)
Eminent Member
Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

Last night I managed to print a near perfect Pikachu, but now the gears have a hard time loading the filament. It creates clicking sounds and leads to areas missing in the print.

I'm using the PLA it came with and thought there might've been a clog so I heated the nozzle to 255 to clean it out and the gears load the filament in fine.

When I start a print it can sometimes lay down a nice first border but then it starts having trouble loading the filament and the gears start to catch on the filament.

I can't seem to find the sweet spot for the idler either. Yesterday during a failed Pikachu print I tried to adjust the diler during a failed Pikachu print. I kept pausing and starting the print and adjusting the tension in the spring screws to find the sweetspot. I got to a point where it stopped clicking for a few minutes and kept going forward with the print having no filament problems. As soon as I stopped the print and started a new one the gears started clicking again.

Should I be unloading/reloading the filament everytime? It doesn't have a problem loading it, just after a first layer/border it will start clicking.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks!

Publié : 19/01/2018 1:09 pm
Bigdogbro1
(@bigdogbro1)
Estimable Member
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

Open up the idler gear mount and inspect the gears. Take note to see if the cover is warped or twisted and if the gear teeth are only wearing on the inner edge side near the filament drive groove. Your motor drive gear may need realignment to the idler gear.

A few pictures would help.

MK3 Kit, Designed, built 4x4 CNC Plasma Cutting Table, Motorcycles Bigdogbro's Adventures
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5djrxBeeOKB9_6rHnn6G8A

Publié : 19/01/2018 1:39 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

unload the filament,
undo the pressure screws,
clean the hobbed gears in the extruder, if necessary,
re insert the pressure screws and screw in, until you just feel the screw contact thehousing, repeat with second screw,
insert pointed filament,
the filament will add a little tension to the springs as it is drawn between the hobbed gears....

hopefully the tension will be correct.

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Publié : 19/01/2018 4:29 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

unload the filament,
undo the pressure screws,
clean the hobbed gears in the extruder, if necessary,
re insert the pressure screws and screw in, until you just feel the screw contact thehousing, repeat with second screw,
insert pointed filament,
the filament will add a little tension to the springs as it is drawn between the hobbed gears....

hopefully the tension will be correct.

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Publié : 19/01/2018 4:29 pm
stoofer
(@stoofer)
Estimable Member
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

Is your filament sensor working? A failed one can overheat to such an extent that your filament will be soft when going through the extruder, and what you describe will happen.

Publié : 19/01/2018 7:20 pm
aowilkie
(@aowilkie)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

I inspected the gears and they seem fine. Attached are pictures.

After playing with the tension in the idler screws. If I unload/reload the filament each time before a first layer calibration I can get a few of the first lines out and then the gears start catching on the filament and it stops loading it. The gears seem aligned fine and I increased the tension in the gears by small incriments (180 degree turns each attempt) to the point where it wouldn't catch at all and just turn, to the point where it seems to just have enough tension to get the filament but then it starts clicking again.

Here's a link to a quick video of the problem:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eWptLo8aGjNsRsShTN81xKPwcfu40jHg/view?usp=sharing

Also how can I check if the filament sensor is working correctly?

Publié : 19/01/2018 8:40 pm
reid.b
(@reid-b)
Reputable Member
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

Your first layer looks smashed in the video- I wonder if you are building up pressure in the nozzle due to it can't extrude properly.

Publié : 19/01/2018 9:12 pm
Chris
(@chris-16)
Reputable Member
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot


Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks!


Your first layer looks smashed in the video- I wonder if you are building up pressure in the nozzle due to it can't extrude properly.

i agree with reid and I would also suggest you consider lowering fan speed incase the cooling van is cooling off the nozzle. The temp reading is done in the block not in the nozzle so if the fan is set too high it will cool the nozzle off just enough.

Publié : 19/01/2018 9:44 pm
Paul Meyer
(@paul-meyer)
Honorable Member
Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

I suspect the extruder is working fine.

Quick check: unload the filament and load new filament. While it pulls the filament in, resist the loading by pulling it out. If it can pull hard, it's probably fine.

If the extruder is working fine and you are getting clicking, you have resistance in the hot end. This can come from:

  • printing too fast (hot end can't melt it fast enough)

  • printing too cold (hot end can't melt it fast enough)

  • jam in the hot end

  • extruder gears too tight (squeezing/deforming filament so it jams in the tube to the hot end)

  • nozzle too low on first layer (too tiny a gap for filament to get out, backs up and jams)
  • You might try a cold pull (loosen the extruder bolts, heat filament from cold to 200, as it passes 130-150 pull the filament out by hand) to see if you can clear any debris from the hot end. You could also check your nozzle.

    What temperature are you running, and what speeds? Try running 10 degrees hotter and half the speed, and see if you still have the issue.

    Publié : 19/01/2018 10:26 pm
    DJ
     DJ
    (@dj-6)
    Trusted Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    From your last picture it appears that the gear is slightly misaligned to the filament. From this angle it seems that the gear is too far to the left. Hard to say for sure if this is the issue but worth a look.

    DJ

    DJ

    Publié : 19/01/2018 10:41 pm
    Bigdogbro1
    (@bigdogbro1)
    Estimable Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot


    From your last picture it appears that the gear is slightly misaligned to the filament. From this angle it seems that the gear is too far to the left. Hard to say for sure if this is the issue but worth a look.

    DJ

    I observed the same misalignment as well.

    MK3 Kit, Designed, built 4x4 CNC Plasma Cutting Table, Motorcycles Bigdogbro's Adventures
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5djrxBeeOKB9_6rHnn6G8A

    Publié : 20/01/2018 1:11 am
    aowilkie
    (@aowilkie)
    Eminent Member
    Topic starter answered:
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    I went to load a filament in and if I pull back I can feel a good pull and the gears will start clicking if I use too much force.

    Now the filament doesn't completely load/extruder so I'm guessing I have a jam in the hotend. I'll re-align the gears as well just to be safe.

    If I don't have the right sized wrench, is it okay to take the hotend off with pliers? I tried this earlier but was worried when I noticed I styarted scraping off some of the material on the hotend.

    Thanks!

    Publié : 20/01/2018 8:17 pm
    stoofer
    (@stoofer)
    Estimable Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot



    If I don't have the right sized wrench, is it okay to take the hotend off with pliers? I tried this earlier but was worried when I noticed I styarted scraping off some of the material on the hotend.

    Thanks!

    I wouldn't use anything other than a correct hex socket on the nozzle and the correct spanner/wrench on the heater block. Brass is very soft and slipping pliers could easily take out some of the wiring.

    Publié : 20/01/2018 8:34 pm
    aowilkie
    (@aowilkie)
    Eminent Member
    Topic starter answered:
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    I tried a cold pull and re-loaded the filament and was able to get a good first layer calibration with no clicking, but when I tried to do another the filament wouldn't come out of the hotend. Am I allowing it to get cold and then clog up the hotend?

    I'll wait till I have access to the proper tools before dismantling the hotend then!

    Publié : 20/01/2018 8:59 pm
    Bill
     Bill
    (@bill-3)
    Estimable Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    I had the same issue last night. I have had my printer for about a month and have run about two and a half spools of filament through making various things. Everything checked out as far as the extruder gears and such. I used nylon filament and performed three cold pulls with little improvement. I happened to have some extra new nozzles for my MK2. Swapped out he nozzle (for a cheap 4mm nozzle from china) and the problems went away. I had a clog issue in the nozzle that did not clear with the cold pulls.

    If you change the nozzle remember it MUST be done so while hot. The heater block can be held with a 17mm wrench and the nozzles are 7mm.

    Publié : 21/01/2018 2:45 am
    andrew.m53
    (@andrew-m53)
    New Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    Hi Alex,

    Have you ever sorted out your issue? I have the exact same problem happening and it's driving me nuts!

    Loading and unloading filament is absolutely no problem and I don't get any of the clicking sounds. However, as soon as I begin a print, it clicks right off the get go and I can't print a single line even.

    Any help is much appreciated!

    Publié : 27/03/2018 5:28 am
    3DVS
     3DVS
    (@3dvs)
    Active Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    Kinda the same issue here but it's clicking even when there is no filament in the extruder...
    Clicking while printing flex but not when printing pla/petg/pc...
    I'll have to check the alignment and the pressure screws...

    Publié : 27/03/2018 9:46 am
    Kameron
    (@kameron)
    Active Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot

    I have the same problems (only with layer hights < 0.1). Unfortunately I broke my hotend when I try to change the nozzle... Next week I will replace it and try again.
    There are so many posts with this kind of issue here in the forum and in the facebook groups. I think the whole MK3 Extruder seems to be "critically constructed". My Extruder Motor is so hot that I can't let my fingers rest on it (yes, I already lowered the tension to the loosest possible point). The whole extruder is so hot that I think this will lead to the problems. Filament will get soft at the gears already and I'm not sure if the heat may deform the PLA parts of the Extruder...

    Publié : 27/03/2018 11:23 am
    Kai
     Kai
    (@kai-2)
    Famed Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot


    I have the same problems (only with layer hights < 0.1). Unfortunately I broke my hotend when I try to change the nozzle... Next week I will replace it and try again.
    There are so many posts with this kind of issue here in the forum and in the facebook groups. I think the whole MK3 Extruder seems to be "critically constructed". My Extruder Motor is so hot that I can't let my fingers rest on it (yes, I already lowered the tension to the loosest possible point). The whole extruder is so hot that I think this will lead to the problems. Filament will get soft at the gears already and I'm not sure if the heat may deform the PLA parts of the Extruder...

    I guess that is one of the reasons why the extruder ist printed in PET and ABS. 😉

    Wer freundlich fragt bekommt auch eine freundliche Antwort.
    nec aspera terrent

    Publié : 27/03/2018 11:38 am
    Kameron
    (@kameron)
    Active Member
    Re: Filament Idler Clicks, Can't find tension sweetspot


    I guess that is one of the reasons why the extruder ist printed in PET and ABS. 😉

    Are you sure? That would calm me down a bit!

    Publié : 27/03/2018 11:55 am
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