Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height  

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

I had a similar clogging problem with a very detailed 0.15 print which was very slow. Clogged on me three times. I discovered after I’d disassembled the hot end the third time to clear the clog that there was no thermal paste on the heat break connection to the heat sink. I have E3D V6 heads in two other printers and I know they recommend to use paste there to prevent the heat break from overheating. I suspect this was my problem. Added thermal paste when I reassembled and haven’t had the problem since.

I’m not sure why Prusa doesn’t use the thermal paste. The manufacturer recommends it, see Step 15 here: https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Guide/V6+Assembly/6 . Perhaps Prusa has a reason, they do use a different fan, or maybe it was just an assembly error? As the hot end comes pre-assembled, even in the kit versions, I’d never checked this.

You may have the same problem. Without the paste heat travel from the heat break to the heat sink is slower, which can lead to slow melting of filament in the bottom portion of the heat break, which in turn causes the clog. This is exacerbated by slow filament travel such as printing at 0.1mm.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

I had a similar clogging problem with a very detailed 0.15 print which was very slow. Clogged on me three times. I discovered after I’d disassembled the hot end the third time to clear the clog that there was no thermal paste on the heat break connection to the heat sink. I have E3D V6 heads in two other printers and I know they recommend to use paste there to prevent the heat break from overheating. I suspect this was my problem. Added thermal paste when I reassembled and haven’t had the problem since.

I’m not sure why Prusa doesn’t use the thermal paste. The manufacturer recommends it, see Step 15 here: https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Guide/V6+Assembly/6 . Perhaps Prusa has a reason, they do use a different fan, or maybe it was just an assembly error? As the hot end comes pre-assembled, even in the kit versions, I’d never checked this.

You may have the same problem. Without the paste heat travel from the heat break to the heat sink is slower, which can lead to slow melting of filament in the bottom portion of the heat break, which in turn causes the clog. This is exacerbated by slow filament travel such as printing at 0.1mm.

Sounds logical that the heatbreak isnt working as well as intended without the thermal paste, I do get like huge blobs at the end of the clogged filaments most of the time. I will try applying some and have another go. In the meanwhile I will try to print at a higher speed to compensate for the slow extrusion. Will keep you updated on the progress!

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

Your logic with the thermal paste seems good, although remember to apply a bit to the nozzles thread as well.

What temperature are you extruding at?
If the filament is too cold and thus too viscous it won't as easily press through that 0.1 mm opening.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

Your logic with the thermal paste seems good, although remember to apply a bit to the nozzles thread as well

I don’t think you should use it on the nozzle thread, or on the heat break on the hot end side. They both run too hot and you’ll end up baking the compound so that you’ll never be able to separate them. The thermal compound should only be used on the cool end of the heat break, where it screws into the heat sink. This is what E3D recommend.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

I don’t think you should use it on the nozzle thread, or on the heat break on the hot end side. They both run too hot and you’ll end up baking the compound so that you’ll never be able to separate them. The thermal compound should only be used on the cool end of the heat break, where it screws into the heat sink. This is what E3D recommend.

Of course don't use cheap compound as it won't stand the temperatures involved. But from an engineering standpoint thermal compound should improve the thermal conductivity from the heater block to the nozzle and thus help with consistently melting the filament.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

Tried printing at a faster speed on a Benchy @ 210 degrees Celsius. It didnt give me any issue until i reach the part where the extrusion is much less and it starts to clog.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

I had a similar clogging problem with a very detailed 0.15 print which was very slow. Clogged on me three times. I discovered after I’d disassembled the hot end the third time to clear the clog that there was no thermal paste on the heat break connection to the heat sink. I have E3D V6 heads in two other printers and I know they recommend to use paste there to prevent the heat break from overheating. I suspect this was my problem. Added thermal paste when I reassembled and haven’t had the problem since.

I’m not sure why Prusa doesn’t use the thermal paste. The manufacturer recommends it, see Step 15 here: https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Guide/V6+Assembly/6 . Perhaps Prusa has a reason, they do use a different fan, or maybe it was just an assembly error? As the hot end comes pre-assembled, even in the kit versions, I’d never checked this.

You may have the same problem. Without the paste heat travel from the heat break to the heat sink is slower, which can lead to slow melting of filament in the bottom portion of the heat break, which in turn causes the clog. This is exacerbated by slow filament travel such as printing at 0.1mm.

Just applied some Arctic Silver MX4 thermal compound I had lying around. There wasnt any thermal paste beforehand. Hopefully this works!

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

i had also issues with 0.1mm detailed settings
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/support-chat-helped-me-very-well-gt-gt-clogging-ex-t13950.html

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

My break on the Mk3 did have thermal paste on it when I disassembled it, so it's not a problem across the board.

I also just had a 20 hour print with 0.05 layer height finish, it looks great!

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

My break on the Mk3 did have thermal paste on it when I disassembled it, so it's not a problem across the board.

I also just had a 20 hour print with 0.05 layer height finish, it looks great!

What speeds were you printing at? Still have no luck on a successful print.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

My break on the Mk3 did have thermal paste on it when I disassembled it, so it's not a problem across the board.

I also just had a 20 hour print with 0.05 layer height finish, it looks great!

Could we possibly get a peak to some pics?

Thx in advance

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

[attachment=0]IMG_1422[1].JPG[/attachment]

I'm printing this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2492366

I printed an older version of it with a Kossel XL delta, which should be there under the "I made one" stuff.

My settings are default (adding pillar support whenever I need support), but with slow layer 1 speed. I find that 180 degree turns on layer 1 to be profoundly unreliable at normal speed (they tend to get lifted by the nozzle) so I've made it 15mm/s on every setting, but back to normal for the rest.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

My break on the Mk3 did have thermal paste on it when I disassembled it, so it's not a problem across the board.

I also just had a 20 hour print with 0.05 layer height finish, it looks great!

Sighs, i found out that my nozzle is still partially clogged, the filament extruded isnt coming down straight. Tried to clean it with an acupuncture needle, it did help it to print more but it still clogged in the end. Now i dont know what to do other than wait for support's help.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

IMG_1422[1].JPG

I'm printing this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2492366

I printed an older version of it with a Kossel XL delta, which should be there under the "I made one" stuff.

My settings are default (adding pillar support whenever I need support), but with slow layer 1 speed. I find that 180 degree turns on layer 1 to be profoundly unreliable at normal speed (they tend to get lifted by the nozzle) so I've made it 15mm/s on every setting, but back to normal for the rest.

wow its so clean, no missing extrusions as well! And did you mean that you printed at 60mm/s for the rest of the layers?

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

wow its so clean, no missing extrusions as well! And did you mean that you printed at 60mm/s for the rest of the layers?

No, the default settings for 0.05mm DETAIL in Slic3r Prusa Edition are not fast.
30mm/s perimeters
20mm/s external perimeters
30mm/s infill
20mm/s top solid infill

But when something wants to look nice, I'm happy for it to be slow.

I've hit a layer shift problem a couple of times, and tall thin objects do like to get knocked over so I've started printing with a brim just to help with that.

My 0.2 FAST prints aren't bad either (again, just lowered layer 1 speed from the defaults because I do have problems with the first layer at default speeds)

[attachment=0]IMG_1428[1].JPG[/attachment]

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

My break on the Mk3 did have thermal paste on it when I disassembled it, so it's not a problem across the board.

I also just had a 20 hour print with 0.05 layer height finish, it looks great!

Sighs, i found out that my nozzle is still partially clogged, the filament extruded isnt coming down straight. Tried to clean it with an acupuncture needle, it did help it to print more but it still clogged in the end. Now i dont know what to do other than wait for support's help.

Have you ruled out bad filament?

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

My break on the Mk3 did have thermal paste on it when I disassembled it, so it's not a problem across the board.

I also just had a 20 hour print with 0.05 layer height finish, it looks great!

Sighs, i found out that my nozzle is still partially clogged, the filament extruded isnt coming down straight. Tried to clean it with an acupuncture needle, it did help it to print more but it still clogged in the end. Now i dont know what to do other than wait for support's help.

Have you ruled out bad filament?

Yep. I tried a few different filaments including the one from prusa and a few reliable ones i have from my old printer. Still no luck. Either i get a clog midway in the print or i get missing layers.

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

Hey there,

my MK3 hasn't arrived yet, but I do have some experience with clogged nozzles / stopped extrusions. I want to share some information, maybe it could help:

1. Bad Filament:

I had some filament that randomly had some thicker spots. Took me a while to recognize that, as they occured just once in a while, and at the clogging moment they where already inside the nozzle. On top of that those spots contained some leftover non meltable particles that really ruined some nozzles.

2. Filament changing procedure

Some very tricky situations there. If there sits some highly melted Filament in the tip of the nozzle (i.e. after some idle time), and you pull back the Filament, this melted Filament can settle at the colder regions. If you are lucky it's lose enough to be pushed out through the next filament load, but if it really seals up, your left with a huge problem. Nothing else to do as to take everything apart. So always push out the molten stuff before pulling back the filament.

3. Retraction

If retraction is to high (or to long) same thing as Nr.2 can happen, but over time. it constantly builds some amount of molten filament in the cold regions. If retraction is just to fast or to often, it just rips up your filamentand the filament gets stuck....obviously. My standard retraction settings for an E3D System are: Distance: 2mm Speed: 10-20mm/s. If it's a print with many details, consider island printing, avoid outlines crossing, and only retract with open spaces. I have absolute zero stringing with those settings, only flexible filaments need some further adjustments.

4. Dust and dirt

Those things will eventually carbonize inside the nozzle and clogg it up over time. Consider using a sponge or something similar to be mounted on your feed system so the filament contantly gets wiped off.

5. Amount of extrusion

Printing with to much extruded Material can lead to a push back of the molten Plastic and produce a similar clogging as in Nr. 2. Especially with small layer heights. There is not much space between the nozzle and the surface, so it's more likely to be pushed back. It also depends on the accuracy of the nozzles inside, and how well it mathces up your filament diameter. It not so critical with larger leyer heights, as the molten filament just squishes out at the sides, as you might know from some overextruded prints. Be shure to have a well calibrated extruder, and measure your filaments diameter for detailed prints to get that right. Same can happen with to low first layers, plus you can pick up some stuff from the printbed and get it pressed inside the nozzle.

6. Change the type of filament

An Obvious one. Changing the type of Filament with a lower melting point than before, always purge the nozzle generously after filament change at the high temperature, so all the leftovers from the high melting filament gets pulled through and the nozzles inside is really purged well.

7. Temperature to low

Obviously, nothing to add here

8. Temperture to high

When people get clogging issues, they often tend to raise the temperature. BUT, when you are dealing with some detailed prints, low layer height and slow speeds, the amount of heat that builds up at the filament is much higher than at higher rates, as the Volume of extruded Material is MUCH lower. At the Tip of the nozzle the molten filament contacts the Nozzle almost everywhere, as its molten, so heat will transfer in the Filament quite well. At the colder and actively cooled regions, the filament is still solid, and therefore contacts the areas just at some small spots. Therefore heat will be transfered from the filament to its environment quite poorly. If the heated filament in the cold region won't get pushed to the tip of the nozzle fast enough, it will soften or even melt over time, and seriously seal up your extrusion system. Combine this with some retraction, and your in serious trouble. Pair the printing temperature to the capabilities of your nozzle and the extruded amount of filament. For Example, my PLA temperatures reach from 180°C up to 225°C (limited to my Heaterblock). It should be mentioned, if you change from 12V to a 24V System can make a huge difference !

There are still more possibilities to get some clogging, but these are the main ones I can think of. They are not theoretical, but actually happend to me, and each of them took some time to be figured out. I'm printing now for almost 2 years without any clogging (except for one bad filament spool), and my maintenance time spent for my nozzles (cleaning, declogging, etc.) is almost 0.

Feel free to reply or cantact me if there is a possibility that i might could help.

I hope there is some information contained, that could help some of you to save some time or get rid of some problems.

Best Greetings

Re: Fails to print at 0.1mm layer height

Dear Petehagoras

What about the use of specific "cleaning" filaments? are they of any service to us?

Jerry