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jettoblack
(@jettoblack)
Trusted Member
Example of different PEI bed textures

I was looking closely at the printed parts in my MK2 MMU kit and noticed that there are at least two different surface textures used for the parts. Some parts have a rough texture that is noticeably bumpy as you run your finger over it, like sand paper. Other parts have a much finer texture that feels smooth to the touch. This picture is not that great but hopefully you can see the difference.

I hope the final PEI sheets have the smooth texture closer to the one on the right. 🙂

Napsal : 05/11/2017 5:21 pm
rufflez
(@rufflez)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

The parts I ordered to make a pseudo MK2S upgrade a few months ago came like the picture on the left.

Napsal : 05/11/2017 8:51 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

Joe Prusa and his team have been experimenting with different textures. I believe they are moving toward the finer texture...
I think he mentioned it on a video around the time of the TCT show in birmingham

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Napsal : 06/11/2017 12:46 am
surfgeorge
(@surfgeorge)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

I believe I heard some statement in one of the videos that the PEI coated steel sheet will be coated on both sides, which could mean that there are different textures on each side. That would be awesome.

45s into the interview of the 3D printing Nerd with Josef Prusa on Youtube, Josef is explaining the properties of the PEI powdercoating while looking at and touching the BACK side of the print bed sheet.

But I guess we'll only find out when the first printers reach their new owners, based on the statement from support that shipping will begin middle of November that should be about 2 weeks from now. I'm hoping to get mine end of November! 🙂

Napsal : 06/11/2017 5:04 pm
imod.systems
(@imod-systems)
Honorable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

Ugh, I really hope they allow smooth bed surfaces. I'm planning on printing face plates that need to have a perfectly smooth bed surface and this may be a deal breaker for me.

Napsal : 07/11/2017 1:16 am
surfgeorge
(@surfgeorge)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

You can always clip another print surface onto the heated bed.
Glass, carbon fiber, steel sheet with or without PEI sheet...

Or simply get the MK2S, which prints beautifully!

PS: I kind of like both structures and would be very happy if the steel sheet would come with 2 different coatings like that, and then optionally there should be an sheet with the adhesive PEI sheet or just plain steel to stick on whatever print surface you like. I am sure we will see that sooner or later, even if from a 3rd party.

Napsal : 07/11/2017 10:00 am
imod.systems
(@imod-systems)
Honorable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

Spoke to support and they said the same thing the poster above me, removed the included sheet and replace it with one that has a smooth surface. The rep said you'll have to manually adjust Z to accommodate the thickness of the surface you're using. They also said that they're currently developing several different textures and the MK3 that was featured was an early production model, hence the noctua fan that wasn't even the correct color in the presentation.

I'm really glad that they were able to confirm all of that because the current bed texture was a deal breaker for me. I really need the surface of my prints to be smooth because I'm printing cases and faceplates.

Napsal : 07/11/2017 5:14 pm
Bexwhitt
(@bexwhitt)
Active Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

THere is nothing stopping you getting a glass sheet and using that with adjustment or even putting a PEI sheet on the other side.

Napsal : 08/11/2017 3:44 pm
imod.systems
(@imod-systems)
Honorable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

I didn't even think about flipping it over to the other side and using a PEI sheet, as long as the other side is smooth. The support rep said you can use glass, although it's not recommended, and manually adjust Z. Kind of defeats the purpose of auto bed leveling.

I'll sit tight and worry about this when the printer actually gets here.

Napsal : 08/11/2017 4:04 pm
surfgeorge
(@surfgeorge)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

The coated steel sheet shown at the makers fares was coated on both sides. It can be seen very clearly in the interview that Tom Galanter did with Joe Prusa.
I actually like that, as it kind of doubles the lifetime of the sheet and potentially could allow Prusa to deliver the sheet with 2 different coatings, a coarse and a fine one. The smooth sheet would be nice as an option...

Napsal : 08/11/2017 10:05 pm
rotarypower101
(@rotarypower101)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures


The coated steel sheet shown at the makers fares was coated on both sides. It can be seen very clearly in the interview that Tom Galanter did with Joe Prusa.
I actually like that, as it kind of doubles the lifetime of the sheet and potentially could allow Prusa to deliver the sheet with 2 different coatings, a coarse and a fine one. The smooth sheet would be nice as an option...

I hope that is the tact they take!

I assume the optimal way will be to make each side have the same depth of PEI despite the surface granularity to help with the sensor.

But this can easily be facilitated even if they are different granularity grades simply by having the smoother side have a thicker layer to closely match that of the thicker grained surface.

* Question to those that this is a important topic to, where would you use the heavier grained surface? And would you use it as a reveal surface when applicable?

Personally the surface I get off the PEI sheet is absolutely perfect for me, and if I had a choice or selection for the SS build plate, it would absolutely be to match that if at all possible. To me the PEI Sheet surface is the perfect compromise, it can be used for reveal surfaces, and the way the light hits it does not jump out as different typically, so everything looks uniform and more equal.

Napsal : 09/11/2017 2:18 am
gz1
 gz1
(@gz1)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

I tend to orient parts that I want to glue together along smooth surfaces. I.e. there is real functional value to it.

So the textured surface is kind of slightly worse IMO, but the compromise is bearable if it works as well as advertised *cough* and I can just lay kapton tape on top of it.

Napsal : 09/11/2017 3:11 am
surfgeorge
(@surfgeorge)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

For your information...
In the Czech forum one of he Prusa supporters stated that the flexible steel plate will be coated with PEI on both sides, with the same structure.
Cheers!

Napsal : 10/11/2017 10:21 pm
rotarypower101
(@rotarypower101)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures


Zdravím Pepíku,
tiskový plát je oboustranný a obě strany mají shodnou povrchovou úpravu. Finální podobu balení zatím netuším, ale další tiskové pláty bude možné dokoupit zvlášť.

Translated:

Hello Pepík,
the printing plate is double-sided and both sides have the same surface finish. I do not know the final form of the package, but other printing plates will be available separately.

Napsal : 11/11/2017 7:17 am
Thessarilth
(@thessarilth)
Active Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures



Zdravím Pepíku,
tiskový plát je oboustranný a obě strany mají shodnou povrchovou úpravu. Finální podobu balení zatím netuším, ale další tiskové pláty bude možné dokoupit zvlášť.

Translated:

Hello Pepík,
the printing plate is double-sided and both sides have the same surface finish. I do not know the final form of the package, but other printing plates will be available separately.

thanks both of you for sharing with us those comments on the České fórum

Napsal : 11/11/2017 1:34 pm
rotarypower101
(@rotarypower101)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

It sure seems to make sense to have a double sided plate with different options per side though!

Then two plates can cover the duties of 4 when swapping in build plates

It will be a nominal wait for the parts to cool to use a single plate, it just seems like a optimization that is likely possible. And sound like a attractive option. To the point it's a shame they are not dual sided and come with 2 to allow quickly swapping plates, one of the nicest features you could have to expidite work flow!

I am fairly confident it is "easily" possible if the PEI coats similarly to standard powder. I have done multicolor in my shop, the seemingly only dificulty would be how important the layer thickness pairity is with two different grain types.

Is there a good way to ask Prusa for the consideration of a dual textured build plate?

I am sure they are completely inundated with CS ATM, as the single mailing I have ever made to them was not responded to for 3 days, and the reply still has not been returned as of yet.

Even if it were to be made avalible in the future.

Would love any news on a smooth PEI SS build plate also!

Napsal : 11/11/2017 7:21 pm
jlandecker
(@jlandecker)
New Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

Personally I would prefer to have the same texture on both sides. I'm pretty sure I'll prefer a finer/smoother finish, so I'd rather have a plate I can get twice the life out of vs having one side I don't like. The cost of the plates will be reasonable enough that I can afford to have an extra with the rougher texture if I want to use that occasionally. And I wonder whether it'll be easier to manufacture plates with a single surface finish.

Napsal : 16/11/2017 12:45 am
rotarypower101
(@rotarypower101)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures


Personally I would prefer to have the same texture on both sides. I'm pretty sure I'll prefer a finer/smoother finish, so I'd rather have a plate I can get twice the life out of vs having one side I don't like. The cost of the plates will be reasonable enough that I can afford to have an extra with the rougher texture if I want to use that occasionally. And I wonder whether it'll be easier to manufacture plates with a single surface finish.

Absolutely, just pushing for the smooth bed agenda and concept.

Have not seen anything that officially says we will be able to get a "as manufactured" smooth surface as of yet.

My assumption is that a textured build plate would be more tolerant of first layer "slop" perhaps making accurate setup less critical?

I can't think of many scenarios where I would favor a single side of a print that was heavily textured as have been shown.

The surface I get off of those PEI sheets is fantastic! That would certainly be my hope and preference if they can achieve that with the powder coat process Prusa are working on.

Napsal : 16/11/2017 12:45 pm
jweaver
(@jweaver)
Honorable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures

Thinking out loud.. If the plate had 2 surfaces, it could be different thickness, so this would mean calibrating the Z axis every change you change size..

Wouldn't this be a PITA? To be honest, I say this with no knowledge of how to change the Z axis on the Prusa, but on my Printrbot (also Marlin based) its a bit of a pain. And if you get it wrong, you are either going to print too high, or gouge the bed, so I do it with extreme caution.

Napsal : 16/11/2017 2:40 pm
rotarypower101
(@rotarypower101)
Estimable Member
Re: Example of different PEI bed textures


Thinking out loud.. If the plate had 2 surfaces, it could be different thickness, so this would mean calibrating the Z axis every change you change size..

Wouldn't this be a PITA? To be honest, I say this with no knowledge of how to change the Z axis on the Prusa, but on my Printrbot (also Marlin based) its a bit of a pain. And if you get it wrong, you are either going to print too high, or gouge the bed, so I do it with extreme caution.

Simply calibrating the process to make the Thickness of the "smooth" side match that of the mean average of the "textured" side I think would be the only challenge.

Which wouldn't be markedly different that controlling 2 sides of equal thickness, assuming the slight variances were even an issue.

Napsal : 16/11/2017 3:11 pm
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