Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?  

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@Charles

if you go to youtube and search for "VOC's Printing" you will find more info then you will probably want.

Regards,

Swiss_Cheese

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

I think that PETg is the least odorous of the common filaments.

ABS definitely has that 'melted plastic' aroma and PLA has an almost sweet smell. I can't even remember any discernible odor when printing PETg.

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@cwbullet

Indeed PETG isn't radium.  and I'm not suggesting that the charcoal and hepa filters aren't sufficient.  I'm merely suggesting that it's not a horrible idea to be cautious.  Coal miners working in mines would agree that coal dust isn't radium but they might agree that it's probably not the best to breathe in either.   I'm going to try to limit printing abs until I can get my ventilation strategy worked out.

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

Thanks.  I have watched a lot of the videos on VOCs.  I have also reviewed more research on the topic than 90% of you.  I am trained in Occupational and Operational Medicine and this is my job.  I have experienced in doing research on VOC and organic compound exposures.  

I agree and maybe folks might be misinterpreting me.  Being cautious is fine and each of my printers that prints ABS and ASA has a filter system.  Paying 1000 might be a little much.  There are $800-1K systems for printers out there.  I made my own.  

The one listed above is on of the cheaper systems.  I think it probably works fine.  

PETG and PLA are probably negligible for VOCs.  Then again, tomorrow they may find it cases “X” cancer.  

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@cwbullet

I'm not disputing you are likely much more knowledgeable on the subject than I 🙂  800 dollars or more per printer is no doubt expensive.  In my local setup I'm going to try to figure out how to vent outside at some point.  Since I work in the basement and I live in Colorado, radon is more of a concern and it's why my basement has a radon mitigation system.  I'm probably going to move my printers so I can pipe the exhaust to where the radon system already vents outside.  I've been print PLA and PETG for months without concern, but for ABS and ASA I'm less comfortable with just running through a filter.   I wasn't crazy about the abs fumes when I smelled them.   and I think prolonged prints with it, even with filter would likely give me a headache. 

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

Posted by: @ssill2

[...] Indeed PETG isn't radium.  and I'm not suggesting that the charcoal and hepa filters aren't sufficient.  I'm merely suggesting that it's not a horrible idea to be cautious.  Coal miners working in mines would agree that coal dust isn't radium but they might agree that it's probably not the best to breathe in either.   I'm going to try to limit printing abs until I can get my ventilation strategy worked out.

With PLA and PETG, the biggest concern -- alarm by some -- is over ultra-fine particles (UFPs), the health impacts of which are not well known. While I agree that minimizing UFPs is generally a good thing, it's also worth remembering most of us already fill our homes with devices that generate many times as many UFPs as a 3D printer. Laser printers and microwaves are particularly notorious. Busy roadways are also a major producer. I'm all for isolating 3D printer fumes, but simply isolating your 3D printer may not have much of an actual health benefit. Chuck is much more of an authority on this topic than I am, but I do read up on the topic regularly.

I have seen reference to a NASA study into UFPs associated with 3D printing for use on the space station. One finding was (reportedly) that the moisture level of filament made a big difference. Dry PLA produced significantly lower amounts of UFPs than moisture-laden. If anybody finds a source (assuming it exists), I'd really like to read it. Drying filament is a good idea for print quality, so good practice in any case.

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

Well, I don't know what to say, I have ABS printing on a printer open air in my living room as I type this, if I don't Make it out alive I,ll make sure my family notifies this post, so y'all will know.

I actually do this commonly sometimes with just a window open, or in this instance the AC is on and handles it.

I do have an enclosure as well.

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@swiss_cheese

None of us actually make it out alive in the end 🙂

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@ssill2

I was absolutely thinking that when I typed that, but I felt I was getting close to my joking around on the forums limit for the day 🤣

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

I think this is a good discussion.  Like Bob said, the NASA article is about the space station.  That is a closed air environment.  I have never been there, but I imagine the air circulation is different and may be less.    Have a printer in an officer or workspace is probably different than sleeping next one or huffing the air coming off the extruder.  

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@cwbullet

yeah the space station is a whole different animal.   Anything like that or something like a submarine or an airplane with pressurized cabin would be a place where the particles produced by devices would be a big concern.  Though I would imagine the air is scrubbed constantly through very expensive filters.  Not that you'd be doing a whole lot of 3d printing on an airplane in flight 🙂

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@Charles

I do know that a carbon filter will remove the VOC's from the environment in the enclosure and it will also eliminate the the odor, and it doesn't have to be expensive you can print one of many designs available on thingiverse type sites, or use your CAD book and design your own. you don't even have to buy filters, if you choose you can just use carbon like you put in fish tank filters or even make your own. it's very effective.

Enjoy,

Swiss_Cheese

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

Ultimaker (the brand of my 'other' printer) has, within the past few weeks, been rolling out 'official' support for PETg filaments.  Previously it's been done by the user by tweaking the slicer parameters.

Almost coincidentally, in a page they posted today on printing with their New Ultimaker PETg Filament, they have this note:

"Health and safety

Ultimaker PETG emits low levels of gases and particles when 3D printed in accordance with the recommended temperatures mentioned above. To ensure a comfortable and healthy working environment, we recommend 3D printing in a well-ventilated area."

The page, if you want to view it, is here:

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021031599-How-to-print-with-Ultimaker-PETG

The Safety Data Sheet (that's the term they use) is available here if you want to view it:

https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021702499

It really does not say much in the 'Hazards Identification' section. As for treatment for inhalation they say: "Not likely, due to the form of the product. If exposed to excessive levels of dusts or fumes, remove to fresh air and get medical attention if cough or other symptoms develop." The specific hazards noted seem to apply more to the pigments (carbon black and titanium dioxide) than to the plastic itself.

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

@jsw

They got rid of the M a few yrs ago, I guess it was costing to much money for companies to type MSDS.

I hear the savings are in the billions now.

RE:

@OP, @cwbullet,

I just came across this article   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7908560/
Published online 2021 Jan 21

Bottomline : "we recommend conducting additional measurements" & " For personal printing in households, it is recommended to print in a space without the presence of persons and to ventilate the space. "

Prepare for oozing, and failed prints with the door closed

I leave the door open all the way for PLA, for PETG it can be closed for a short time - but if it goes too hot, don't expect great detail.  I recommend leaving the door open for PETG (no fumes to speak of).  If you have the occasional weird print that warps, sure close the door.

RE: Prusament PETG using enclosure for health reasons?

Posted by: @gromit21

@OP, @cwbullet,

I just came across this article   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7908560/
Published online 2021 Jan 21

Bottomline : "we recommend conducting additional measurements" & " For personal printing in households, it is recommended to print in a space without the presence of persons and to ventilate the space. "

They are referring to living spaces and not limited to transient exposure.