Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?  

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

The E3D v6 on the Mk3 is an all-metal hot-end already. The only part you really need is a hardened steel nozzle (or Nozzle X or a ruby/sapphire nozzle), because the chopped carbon fibers will wear out brass nozzles quickly.

Next is bed adhesion. Nylon will not stick to bare PEI. You can use the supplied PVA stick on the PEI surface and that will work fine, but will need a refresh between prints. Or you can invest into a garolite bed, which has good adhesion to nylon even without any coating.

And finally the filament itself. PA12-based Nylons will warp too much without a heated print chamber, so best avoid those. PA6/6.6-copolymer filaments will not warp, but will absorb moisture quickly. They'll need drying before printing, either in a dryer or in an oven. Often, even a filament fresh out of the box will have already absorbed enough moisture to cause clogs in the extruder. Drying will fix that.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

Thanks for the response. In my research on carbon fiber nylon printing I did hear the E3D v6 all metal hotend mentioned. So the Mk3 comes stock with it? That is extremely convenient. All your information helps. I do plan to build or buy a dry box for the filament and put it in an over before printing. Would building an enclosure potentially help?

Another question: do you know where I could buy a compatible garolite bed? I am having trouble finding any online.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

Posted by: garrettgutierrez1

Thanks for the response. In my research on carbon fiber nylon printing I did hear the E3D v6 all metal hotend mentioned. So the Mk3 comes stock with it? That is extremely convenient.

Yes, it does.

All your information helps. I do plan to build or buy a dry box for the filament and put it in an over before printing.

If you build a dry box, then the best next step is to connect it with a PTFE reverse-bowden to the extruder. That way, no moisture can get to the filament while printing and you can keep the filament loaded basically forever.

Would building an enclosure potentially help?

It can improve warping somewhat. Even the low-warp filaments aren't no-warp filaments so getting the ambient temperature up helps. For high-warping PA12 you would need to get close to 90 °C ambient and that'll cause a lot of problems with other printer parts, including PETG plastic and cables. An enclosure doesn't help too much for moisture. But for air pollution yes, it does. Nylons are one of the more particle-producing filaments.

Another question: do you know where I could buy a compatible garolite bed? I am having trouble finding any online.

You'll find answers in this thread. In short, the bed needs to be magnetic and thin. Then making sure the PINDA is nicely low and adjusting the Live Z will make the printer work with a Garolite bed just as it does with the PEI bed.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@vojtech-p6

What about the PTFE tube inside the hotend ? Won't it melt while printing the fiber carbon at let's say 260°C ?

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

Posted by: @toblanc34

@vojtech-p6

What about the PTFE tube inside the hotend ? Won't it melt while printing the fiber carbon at let's say 260°C ?

The MK3 has a full metal hot-end. The PTFE ends in the cool block and doesn't reach any high temperatures.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

Search if you need a bigger hole, like 0.5 to print fiber/carbon filament.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@toblanc34

The Mk3 comes with an all-metal E3D hotend, the PTFE tube ends in the cold zone, so it's fine up to approximately 290°C. Above that, you run out of the resolution (and range) of the thermistor, resulting in poor regulation of the hotend temperature. Still above, the aluminum of the heaterblock will start softening. But for nylon, 285 °C is enough and within the capability of the mk3.

I'm continuing tuning my TreeD PAHP Carbon profile, and it prints real nice (albeit slow) now. With a 0.4mm nozzle.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@vojtech-p6 - Welcome back! Where have you been?

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@vojtech-p6

you mentioned TreeD PAHP Carbon. I would like to ask few questions about your setting, if that's ok.

Could you share your setting? I am grateful for any information.
How do you prepare your build sheet? Do you use magigoo, etc?

I cannot express my excitement 🖐️ , when I found your post. I have this and Ultraflexx (TPE) on a way from TreeD as these materials looks promising for a lot of applications.

Thank you 🍻 

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

Posted by: @tomas-blaha

@vojtech-p6

you mentioned TreeD PAHP Carbon. I would like to ask few questions about your setting, if that's ok.

 

Could you share your setting? I am grateful for any information.
How do you prepare your build sheet? Do you use magigoo, etc?

 

I cannot express my excitement 🖐️ , when I found your post. I have this and Ultraflexx (TPE) on a way from TreeD as these materials looks promising for a lot of applications.

Thank you 🍻 

Interested too

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

Posted by: @tomas-blaha

@vojtech-p6

you mentioned TreeD PAHP Carbon. I would like to ask few questions about your setting, if that's ok.

Sure, I'll be happy to. The most critical with all nylons is to have a dry filament. Like really dry. Overnight at 70 °C. Even though TreeD says that the PAHP isn't as hygroscopic as some Nylon 6's. Otherwise you'll be fighting clogs quite often.

Could you share your setting? I am grateful for any information.

The settings are still a work in progress. I'm using a 0.4mm nozzle, I've had good success with E3D's Nozzle X, but right now the printer has a cheap chinese $17 Tungsten Carbide nozzle installed. And I love it so far. There is the PAHP Filament Profile, the 0.10mm PAHP Print Profile and the postprocess script. The idea of enabling coasting in Prusaslicer via a postprocess script is courtesy @sergey.s4 .

It prints slow, 100% infill, no retract, but produces very nice and very tough parts. I'm planning to tune it more, particularly to decrease the extrusion witdth to 0.30mm, since that's the effective orifice size with this filament when using a 0.4mm nozzle, due to the unusual flow properties of the long-carbon-fiber filled filament.

TreeD recommends a 0.5mm nozzle, and I can see how it would flow better, and would probably be usable with profile tuned for 0.4mm extrusion.

I should also mention that I'm using a Bondtech geared extruder, so I can't say whether the standard Mk3/Mk3s motor will be strong enough to push the PAHP through the 0.4mm nozzle, as that requires quite a bit of force. But hopefully yes.

How do you prepare your build sheet? Do you use magigoo, etc?

I'm using a bare (no magigoo or any spray) Garolite sheet with it. I've bought a cheap stainless Mk3 Flex Sheet on AliExpress, and a 3M 468MP glue sheet of appropriate size and a 0.5mm thick Garolite sheet  and stuck them together. Gave it a light scuff with Scotch-Brite until it stopped being glossy. Works great for all kinds of nylons. Calibrating the first layer is important - too thick and it won't stick or too squished and you'll rip the Garolite with the part when removing.

If you have any further questions, I'll be happy to answer.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@vojtech-p6

Mate thanks a lot! First I need my lazy brain cells to absorb the information.

Will have some questions later 😉 

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

I've made a detailed guide on how to print Nylon with carbon fiber especially eSUN PA-CF on a stock Prusa MK3 + Nozzle-X. Most things apply to other Nylon filaments as well. Maybe it's useful to someone. Here is the Link to my blogpost: https://www.schweinert.com/my-recipe-for-3d-printing-with-esun-pa-cf/

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@garrettgutierrez1

If you are still looking for a Garolite bed, you can buy a stick on garolite sheet (already cut to size) from here... https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/968731313/garolite-bachelite-phenolic-prusa-sheet?ga_search_query=garolite&ref=shop_items_search_1

They used to supply steel sheets with the Garolite already stuck on (which is what I did) - but don't seem to be doing them any more, but you could ask - the company was very helpful.

RE: Printing with Carbon Fiber Nylon?

@tomas-blaha

If you are looking for a great value Carbon Fibre Nylon - Tronxy (yep Tronxy) do a fantastic super cheap CF Nylon. Its less than a quarter of the price of of most CF Nylons and prints great on my Prusa MK3S with Garolite sheet. Should be ok on a textured sheet too.

I use a Nozzle X with 65 bed, 285 nozzle with a little diluted glue stick.

Tronxy also do a great inexpensive TPU as well. They only make a handful of filaments, but these two were surprisingly good - not tried their others.

RE:

@vojotech-p6
@shweinert-com
@si-powers
@any-one-else-that-can-help!

@shweinert-com I really like the thorough treatment in your blogpost. Very easy to follow and full of really time saving insights!  Thank you!

I am going to test-run a nylon with glass fiber on my out of box i3MK3 that has had one upgrade. Sorry, lost track of any other upgrade availability when I went to SL1 and now SL1S for daily Form/Fit test parts.

The major project I am working on is currently slated to use the HP FusionJet PA12 (very expensive!) for our upcoming EpiphanyShower Beta Testing units. Production is planed for PIM with a Nylon 66 glass filled (33%) resin. 

Looking at the dimensional specs on the HP MultiJet Fusion 4200, it is not as good as you folks have been reporting for a proper Nylon FDM setup.

There seem to be several options out there for FDM glass filled nylons. If you or someone you know in the community that has worked with any of them, please let me know.  I would love to pick their brain (or yours) on how best to proceed.  My i3MK3 needs a new extruder right now and it would be great to get a new one that will do Nylons the first time around!  I already have a dry box for my PETG work.  Seems like I may need to purchase or build an enclosure for the MK3.  I have tons of steel sheets with PEI on them.  Tried to replace them once.  Too much work!  Still have some 3M adhesive sheets left. Would likely go to the garolite when I get a proof build that will work.

Thank you for your help!

Robert