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Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)  

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Haum
 Haum
(@haum)
Eminent Member
Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

Heyho folks,

I'm currently trying to print a baseplate for a self-designed insulating transformer. That made it necessary, to design a big housing, which entirely fills the print-sheet. The dimensions are 250x210x10 mm³ and looks like:

Baseplate in Slicer

The problem is that each time the printer reaches one of the last layers, the materials internal temperature tension warps the part and the printer detects a crash when shoving the nozzle over the warped corners. I also tried to use glue, but then the entire steelsheet warped with the baseplate and the printer shifted the entire print-sheet out of my printer-housing on my desk.

Since one of these plates cost 20€ I would be very glad if someone knows how to print "thick" full sheet objects. As mentioned above, it happens at one of the last layers, so the basic problem seems to be a problem of the plates thickness.

Details to the print:
- Printer: MK3S
- Nozzle: 0.6 Ruby (Oscar3D)
- Temperatures: First print 230/30 and later 230/85 to reduce thermal differences and tension in the material
- Material: Extrudr BDP (matte red)
- Sheet: Smooth PEI roughed by 60 sand-paper to enhance adhesion (especially with glue)
- Housing: Self made (Ikea-Table Housing)
- Glue: With and Without

I also tried to use the glue and additionally 4 metal clamps at the corners to hold the steel sheet in place, since this was my best try. But then the baseplate's corners lifted off again and caused a crash-detection.

Since this is only the base-plate, for which I need also 4 walls, 1 lid and a grip for carrying, I need a reliable way to print such plates. Therefore I'd be happy about each hint.

 

Kind regards,
haum

Posted : 03/10/2023 8:16 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

One of the big challenges of 3d printing. I have a similar model. Only way to print is is to use Layerneer (or glue stick, but I like Layerneer's smoothness), a brim, *AND* secure the sheet with binder clips (two in front, two in back) to the heat bed. I still end up with a bit of warping but for my purposes it's acceptable.

Posted : 03/10/2023 10:26 am
Haum
 Haum
(@haum)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

That's exactly what I've described above:

I also tried to use the glue and additionally 4 metal clamps at the corners to hold the steel sheet in place

But the tension was then again so strong, that even with the glue I used (that one from the Maertz Upgrade) was not strong enough to keep it on the plate.

Maybe its a problem of my glue's age or is the Layerneer-glue stronger and can withstand the warping-tension of the material?

This post was modified 2 months ago by Haum
Posted : 03/10/2023 3:58 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

Oops, that's what you get for answering posts before being caffeinated enough 😃 Missed that paragraph completely.

With that size you can't even put a brim around the model... 

Not sure I would say go rush out and buy Layerneer. I swear on it but it's not a panacea. 

Posted : 03/10/2023 4:31 pm
tootrob12
(@tootrob12)
Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

I think you up against a fundamental limitation. The plastic has to be extruded at a high temperature and all unfilled plastics have a high coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE). Even if you find a way to get it to stick, once you release it, the internal stresses will make it warp. 

Personally, I would either break it into smaller pieces that are joined together or I would change the design in a way where it has slots going nearly through the part so that it is flexible and then fill the slots with an epoxy to make it rigid.

Posted : 03/10/2023 6:19 pm
Artur5
(@artur5)
Reputable Member
RE:

Unless, for some reason, these parts must be printed with Extrudr BDP, it would be worth to try a different filament. PETG-CF for instance, because carbon filled filaments do warp considerably less.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Artur5
Posted : 04/10/2023 11:27 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

As this is the outside wall of a box, can you make it thinner? I've been quite successful printing (almost) full size sheets at 2 mm thickness. 

Posted : 04/10/2023 11:34 am
Thejiral
(@thejiral)
Prominent Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

How much infill does it have or are you even printing it with 100% infill?
If you need those dimensions, but have some leeway regarding robustness it could help to reduce the infill %. Especially if your print is failing just at the last few layers.

Your initially very low bed temp for the first layer, may reduce bed induced warping a bit but also reduces bed adhesion substantially as the first layer temp is critical for adhesion, after all it is the material in contact with the bed surface.  

Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4

Posted : 04/10/2023 11:40 am
Thejiral
(@thejiral)
Prominent Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

Another question: what glue have you been using? My exprience is that Kores and similar PVA glues are much less effective than other dedicated 3d print adhesivese. I have good experiences with Dimfax sticks. But everyone has his or her favourite adhesive it seems. 

Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4

Posted : 04/10/2023 11:52 am
Artur5
(@artur5)
Reputable Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

I agree about Dimafix. It works very well, specially with a high bed temperature ( 85C and above ). 

Posted : 04/10/2023 11:59 am
Haum
 Haum
(@haum)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

Heyho,

first - thank you a lot for your responses and sorry for the delay. I was quite busy the last days^^.

Posted by: @fuchsr

Oops, that's what you get for answering posts before being caffeinated enough 😃 Missed that paragraph completely.

With that size you can't even put a brim around the model...

Not sure I would say go rush out and buy Layerneer. I swear on it but it's not a panacea.

Yeah, I designed around a few hours. So it was now possible to arrange everything so that I could make the base plate 10mm smaller in W & H. So I'm now able to add 5mm brim to the sheet.

Posted by: @fuchsr

As this is the outside wall of a box, can you make it thinner? I've been quite successful printing (almost) full size sheets at 2 mm thickness.

Thinner is not really possible, since I use metal screws and nuts which should disappear within the plate, so that it looks quite nice. My hope now is the additional 5mm brim.

Posted by: @artur5

Unless, for some reason, these parts must be printed with Extrudr BDP, it would be worth to try a different filament. PETG-CF for instance, because carbon filled filaments do warp considerably less.

Since the transformator has a weight of ca. 17-20kg I need something really stable. With the first failed plate I tested out if the BDP will bend through, which is why I placed the baseplate on beer crown caps and the trafo on top for a week. Result: Perfect, absolutely no permanent bending of the BDP.

Posted by: @thejiral

Another question: what glue have you been using? My exprience is that Kores and similar PVA glues are much less effective than other dedicated 3d print adhesivese. I have good experiences with Dimfax sticks. But everyone has his or her favourite adhesive it seems. 

I used the one from the Maertz Upgrade (mentioned in my initial post). Can't check any details to the glue, since maertz.plus does not work anymore. Maybe I should give other glues also a try, like the one from fuchsr (Layerneer) or the one you mentioned.

 

Because I already paid already dearly, printing this plate it's now a thing of principle. That's why I give the plate further tries. My current hope is the 5mm brim additionally to glue, high bed-temps and clamps, fixing the printsheet to the actual heatbed.

It could take a few days until I find time to test it out, but I will let you know when I got new results.

Just in case, someone is interested in. This is how the slice looks at the moment:

Kind regards,
haum

This post was modified 2 months ago by Haum
Posted : 07/10/2023 9:58 am
Thejiral
(@thejiral)
Prominent Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

If I am not mistaken than BDP is a PLA based filament. With PLA no matter in which form, one has to be very cautious regarding creep, especially if those parts will be exposed to heat (even if solidly below the thermal limit of regular PLA). Creep means permanent deformation over extend periods of time under constant stress (for example holding up a heavy transformtor).

ABS faires a lot better regarding creep, however it is a bit more flexible by nature than PLA.

Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4

Posted : 08/10/2023 3:32 pm
Artur5
(@artur5)
Reputable Member
RE: Full Sheet Print of a baseplate (Extrudr BDP)

I still believe that a CF filled filament would be better for this model because warping seems to be the main problem. In my experience with Prusament PC-CF or PA11-CF  I never had warping issues, no matter the size of the print. Those filaments are also rigid, strong and with high temperature endurance.

Posted : 08/10/2023 4:12 pm
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