First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15  

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

So I'm still trying to figure this out. I tried cleaning the bed with acetone, let it sit for about 30 minutes, then wiped down with IPA (91%). The first print I did after this, worked better, but I still had severe adhesion issues. Tried it again after wiping down with IPA, and that next one was a miserable failure. This is what the print looked like after I stopped it.

My Z-adjustment is -0.9.

This is printing the 0.050 height treefrog that's pre-loaded on the SD card.

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

You might want to reset your PINDA height and then do another z calibration. You are near the limit at .9 which normally would be at around .5 - .7 and it still looks like you could go down a little bit more based on the print results. Hopefully this helps.

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

So I cleaned the bed with IPA, and ran the first layer calibration. Ended up with ~0.79. I have attached photos of the pinda/nozzle height, and what the calibration output looked like. I then re-applied acetone (I had printed with ColorFabb XT earlier in the day, and needed to use soap/water to get the glue stick off), let it sit for about 30 minutes, and wiped down with IPA. All seems good now.

My question is. If I want to print with these lower heights and/or smaller footprints, should clean with soap/water, apply acetone, and finally IPA before each print?

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

I ended up redoing my calibration as well which got me at .5 or so....but its so annoying to see the filament not stick right away and the nozzle sticks to it and just pulls it around the bed....I've decided to just use painters tape 24/7 works every time and less messy than glu sticks. So far 100% perfect prints once i switched.

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

Layer height is pretty much irrelevant here; the first layer height is important as the lowest the printer can manage is 0.15mm.

All the pre-sliced models should have a first layer height of 0.15mm (or even 0.2mm). Anything less will not stick.

Looking at the photos, the skirt seems to be OK, so the print should be fine unless there are other problems (dirty bed, wrong bed temp, wrong extrude temp, wrong extrude multiplier etc.).

Peter

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

Just an addition to PJR's post in case it's not clear:
There is an option in almost any slicer. You can define your first layer height, independent of the resolution. So you can set 0.2 layer height for the first layer an 0.05 for the rest.

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

Hi everybody,

I had the same problem. A friend told me the solution and for me works perfectly.
He use hair spray. Better the cheapest. Better without odor. Clean before with alcohol isopropilic and after that two "touches" of hair spray. I'm from Spain and use "Nelly" hair spray. I dont know if is avalaible in your country but whatever you choose ...

Additionally, i moved the speed for 2 first layers to 75%. First times by front panel and later in settings at Slic3r.

And never again parts unsticked.

BR

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

Hi everybody,

I had the same problem. A friend told me the solution and for me works perfectly.
He use hair spray. Better the cheapest. Better without odor. Clean before with alcohol isopropilic and after that two "touches" of hair spray. I'm from Spain and use "Nelly" hair spray. I dont know if is avalaible in your country but whatever you choose ...

Additionally, i moved the speed for 2 first layers to 75%. First times by front panel and later in settings at Slic3r.

And never again parts unsticked.

BR

Re: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

It's true too that i did xyz calib. and first layer calib. before 'hair spray'.
Rare was that only with better quality happens.

RE: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

I've gone over the z calibration over and over. Im at the point where the calibration print is perfect, but almost 90% of the time, my first layer does not stick on the bed and starts to clump up on the extruder.  Without changing any settings, I reprint after applying glue stick to the bed surface and everything works perfectly.  I tried readjusting the z axis by 1 tick closer to the bed and all i got was clumping with and without glue stick.  The think is cleaning becomes a choir since I have to go to the washroom, clean the bed surface with hot water, dry and re-apply the glue stick.  What am i doing wrong?  I've used various different filaments but the results are about the same 90-10 ratio.  putting laziness aside for the cleanup, on small prints, it is very difficult to remove the printout since it's glued down onto the bed with the glue stick layer.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

RE: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

Almost always this is due to the bed being contaminated with finger prints.  A good soap and water wash is generally the best fix.

Alcohol doesn't work because it is hard to use gallons as a rinse (whereas a sink it is easy to use gallons of water).

RE: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

I usually use soap and hot water to clean it for that reason. and do 99% alcohol wipe the surface before print.  Are you saying that it is so sensitive that an unseen fingerprint can simply kill adhesion? Interesting thought, but would equally troublesome to using glue stick if I need to wash with soap and water before each print. 🤨 

RE: First layer adhesion with layer height less than 0.15

Alcohol after a wash is a bad idea; generally it just sops up grease from your fingers and applies it to the bed.  Unless you are using gloves, of course.

If glustik helps adhesion, that's pretty conclusive your PEI bed is contaminated.