Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.  

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

I don't know which deities must have accepted my ritual sacrifice of failed prints in the past... I don't even wash my sheet with IPA between prints these days, and everything seems to stick like the dickens, be it PLA, PETG, etc. I feel for those of you with issues, I truly do - and I can definitely see why people raved about it during the initial production run. There's even a faint outline of a PETG+ABS mix still stuck on it that I cannot for the life of me get to come off. Life lesson.. make damn sure you purge ALL of the PETG out before switching to ABS.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

@vintagepc

I would agree with your comments on the failed print to deity except at times my 3d printing god is a vindictive bastard,  

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Things have stopped sticking to the PEI spring steel print sheet. Does anyone have any ideas how long before they wear out?

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Depends how you treat it... No sharp tools and proper maintenance, basically indefinitely. scrapers or blades, not long.

but if it just isn't sticking and not physically damaged, 99% sure it's just dirty.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Posted by: @charles-h13

[...] I would agree with your comments on the failed print to deity except at times my 3d printing god is a vindictive bastard,  

The gods punish arrogance. When my textured sheet arrived, I did a quick print and it seemed ok. Saw someone complaining about PLA adhesion on Reddit and thought I'd do a quick HowTo on it, only to find I can't get PETG to stick to the damned thing. It's like a horror movie. I think I need to pass it on to someone...

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

I found that after printing PLA, I had to go over the same area with PETG (One layer will do) twice before PETG would stick again.

I'm so glad with up to date firmware I no longer have to set live z using PLA.

PLA goes no where near my textured sheet anymore.

Thinking about it a layer of TPU may also help remove whatever contaminants are left by PLA that PETG seems to remove.

It's almost like you need those nose pore strips women use to unblock the pits on the textured sheet after printing with PLA. (Don't try this, I'm sure it would only make things worse, although you never know!).

There has to be something we can paint, pour over the textured sheet that peels when dry to leave a pristine surface, PVA springs to mind, in powdered form mixed with some distilled water, painted on then left for hours to dry, finally peeled off, but the water before it dries may cause corrosion!.

and has anyone tried a drop of rinse aid in the water for the final rinse when washing the textured sheet?, to help get rid of the water from the pits before drying?.

Finally, why do Prusas textured prints look so much more grainy than anything we can produce with our textured sheets?.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

I feel for people struggling with pei sheets that are supposed to make life easier. From what's described it seems there's a number of different causes behind the various issues being experienced. 

Isopropyl Alcohol with a strength of 70%+ (99.9% is best) will do a good job of removing certain contaminants from a used pei sheet. Just like water and dish soap it's main strength is to remove dust, grease and oils from the pei surface which negatively effects adhesion of filaments. In order to perform a deeper clean a good quality pure acetone can be used as it has a stronger chemical reaction with the pei surface and is capable of removing some contamination and stripping some of the pei surface that provides a clean layer for new prints (nail varnish remover isn't good as it generally has added oils and perfumes). Use acetone too often and it'll wear the pei away or break it down making it brittle. 

@zoltan87

Rust on the surface of a prusa flexi print sheet (presumably corrosion of the steel sheet beneath a permeable pei coated layer) shouldn't be possible as it doesn't adhere to pei. 

It seems some of the issues being experienced are due to different causes, and if filaments aren't sticking after using suitable strengths of cleaners it suggests there's a problem with filaments being used or the factory applied pei layer. At that stage it's probably a choice of using stronger cleaning agents and lightly abrasive cleaning material and potentially irreversibly damaging the pei print surface, using an adhesive agent such as a suitable glue stick (elmers and kores are both decent), or buying a replacement pei print sheet.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Does anyone dedicate particular sheets to particular materials?

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Posted by: @chocki

I found that after printing PLA, I had to go over the same area with PETG (One layer will do) twice before PETG would stick again.

I'm so glad with up to date firmware I no longer have to set live z using PLA.

PLA goes no where near my textured sheet anymore.

Thinking about it a layer of TPU may also help remove whatever contaminants are left by PLA that PETG seems to remove.

It's almost like you need those nose pore strips women use to unblock the pits on the textured sheet after printing with PLA. (Don't try this, I'm sure it would only make things worse, although you never know!).

There has to be something we can paint, pour over the textured sheet that peels when dry to leave a pristine surface, PVA springs to mind, in powdered form mixed with some distilled water, painted on then left for hours to dry, finally peeled off, but the water before it dries may cause corrosion!.

and has anyone tried a drop of rinse aid in the water for the final rinse when washing the textured sheet?, to help get rid of the water from the pits before drying?.

Finally, why do Prusas textured prints look so much more grainy than anything we can produce with our textured sheets?.

White school glue and wood glue are PVA glues... 

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Posted by: @towlerg

Does anyone dedicate particular sheets to particular materials?

I do.  Why?

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Not all wood glue is the same, for instance Elmers is  an aqueous emulsion of polyvinyl acetate, polyvinyl alcohol, and propylene glycol.

And answer to another question is I dedicate different sheets to different materials. Smooth PEI to PLA, Textured PEI to PETG, Buildtack to Polycarbonate, but looking for an alternative as PC practically welds itself to it, currently laying my first layer down quite quickly to try to reduce adhesion, and have one more I haven't tried yet, a sheet with a one piece blue painters tape covering, which I am going to try the PC on.

And I hear PC is a pig to get to adhere!, I seriously beg to differ 🙂 try Buildtack black.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Doesn't the endless discussion of how to get this thing to work just bolster my suggestion to use the gluestick? Your prints could stick now, or you could go wash it one thousand times and also use an abrasive and every alcohol you can find. You get the same texture regardless, and all the benefits of the sheet - there's no downside. Doing it the "right" way is a waste of time, just smear glue on and quit thinking about it.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

I have started testing glue sticks.  Which sheet should I use?

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Posted by: @charles-h13

I have started testing glue sticks.  Which sheet should I use?

Well, a textured sheet with crap adhesion would be the most useful. Other than that, not sure what you'd test unless maybe high-temp materials on the smooth sheet?

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Posted by: @ktrpb

Doesn't the endless discussion of how to get this thing to work just bolster my suggestion to use the gluestick? 

Well, gluestick makes it "better" but not "good". I kept a faint hope somebody would find a solution that made the textured sheet (mine at least) perform as advertised originally. With the gluestick, I can get a good print or two -- a big improvement -- and would probably make do if I didn't already have an alternative. As it is, I'm going to ship it out to someone to do some testing.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

@charles-h13

I wondered if it was worth the extra cost? A cost/benefit thing.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

@towlerg

Glu-sticks are cheap.  

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

@bobstro

Ok.  I do have one other item to test on the textured sheet that is used on high temp surfaces.  

@towlerg

Glu-sticks are cheap.  

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Out of curiosity esp. @bobstro, what temperature do you have your print bed for PETG?, I have a WA-11 textured sheet and print PETG first layer @85 then turn it up to 90 for the rest of the layers and it sticks like **** to a blanket whilst hot, and as it cools, you can hear clicking / cracking sounds. By the time it is at room temperature, I can lift the part off without any problems as it has usually already detached.

RE: Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.

Posted by: @chocki

Out of curiosity esp. @bobstro, what temperature do you have your print bed for PETG?, I have a WA-11 textured sheet and print PETG first layer @85 then turn it up to 90 for the rest of the layers and it sticks like **** to a blanket whilst hot, and as it cools, you can hear clicking / cracking sounds. By the time it is at room temperature, I can lift the part off without any problems as it has usually already detached.

I didn't keep careful notes, but I used my PETG profiles that have worked well with the smooth sheet ranging from 70-80C , with most around 80C for PETG. I'm shipping the sheet off for someone else to play with, so can't do much more with it at this point.

My main complaint about the textured sheet has been the change in advertising from the universal surface suited for all common materials to a delicate sheet not suited for PLA that requires special care. I have a working alternative, so at this point I'm mostly just letting people having trouble printing PLA on the textured surface know that they are not imagining things and that steps beyond Prusa's (now revised) instructions may be required. I'm glad it's working for some folks. My non-Prusa sheet is working very nicely, and I do like the textures.