Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge  

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

waits for the whining to ensue when the op realises that the new sensor doesn’t detect movement and hence detect stuck filament.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

I am guessing that the op expects prusa to neatly trim the end off the filament on the roll so that it will not snag when the filament ends, or jam in the extruder housing when the stub of filament tries to eject after a satisfactory end of filament incident

many rolls of filament have a bend where the end of the filament is fastened on the roll, by the filament manufacturer, this usually defeats an otherwise working working filament sensor

Joan

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

waits for the whining to ensue when the op realises that the new sensor doesn’t detect movement and hence detect stuck filament.

Well before you get too pissy toward the OP I will note that the *current* description of the MK3S still lists jammed extruder detection as a feature. I'm not sure how that magic happens with the new design but asking Prusa to correctly list product features doesn't seem like an unreasonable request. I actually tend to agree at least somewhat with the OP that some consideration should be due to folks with MK3 printers. The $20 upgrade isn't much but then it also requires you to print your own parts and do quite a bit of rework. At least for folks that bought fully assembled/tested units in good faith telling them that a fix to a flakey feature (and yes I do think the current one is a bit flakey) requires a teardown, locally printed parts, and a new build up is a bit much. After all - they paid a hefty premium NOT to have to do that construction project to begin with. Sure, if you've had the printer for a year you should expect to have to do some work on it, but for folks who've had it a couple of months, or a couple of weeks? I'm not impressed by Prusa customer service on this one.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

Back to the car analogy... as a former Ford owner... I have experienced the situation where features of the car just didn’t work properly and were fixed later.

MANY, MANY, parts of that car were not as good as they promised. They were not “fixed” for free.

The only upgrades where they’re like, “come get your car fixed for free” are safety recalls, like free tires because the Firestones they used exploded on a few people...

They had a couple issues where they would fix things for free “under warranty” but only if they broke. Someone had suggested that maybe Prusa would give the upgrade to people after they ran out of laser filament sensors. That’s the idea, but only if the filament sensor actually failed.

Other things would break down, and Ford would be like, “Tough sh**, a**hole, that’s what you get for buying a Ford.”

If you wanted the new headlights from the new model year, you’re totally SOL. Go look for a trade-in...

True Story:
Me: Hey, I’m dropping off my ‘98 Explorer for the Recall fix..
Tech: Ok... Which Recall?
Me: Ummm... All of them?
Tech:
Me:
Tech: Ummmm. Sure....

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

waits for the whining to ensue when the op realises that the new sensor doesn’t detect movement and hence detect stuck filament.

Well before you get too pissy toward the OP I will note that the *current* description of the MK3S still lists jammed extruder detection as a feature. I'm not sure how that magic happens with the new design but asking Prusa to correctly list product features doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.

That is something they should definitely fix.

I actually tend to agree at least somewhat with the OP that some consideration should be due to folks with MK3 printers. The $20 upgrade isn't much but then it also requires you to print your own parts and do quite a bit of rework. At least for folks that bought fully assembled/tested units in good faith telling them that a fix to a flakey feature (and yes I do think the current one is a bit flakey) requires a teardown, locally printed parts, and a new build up is a bit much. After all - they paid a hefty premium NOT to have to do that construction project to begin with. Sure, if you've had the printer for a year you should expect to have to do some work on it, but for folks who've had it a couple of months, or a couple of weeks? I'm not impressed by Prusa customer service on this one.

How do you propose that work? Everyone ship their printers back to Prusa for the upgrade?

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

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How do you propose that work? Everyone ship their printers back to Prusa for the upgrade?
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Clearly that won't work. That is why I said "some consideration". I assume that if you order the upgrade that you will also need to pay shipping. They could make the $20 charge cover preprinted parts and shipping. Or do something else reasonable that recognizes that folks that purchased the unit, particularly those that purchased the non-kit version, are being asked to do an upgrade that seems more like a fix. If you want, cap the consideration with some time limit of how old the machine is (6 months, 1 year, ?). As it is, they chose to do this for 2 weeks certainly does not address the issue. I don't want to be unreasonable in my expectations for Prusa here. But what they are currently doing seems pretty poor in my opinion.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

Back to the car analogy... as a former Ford owner... I have experienced the situation where features of the car just didn’t work properly and were fixed later.

Had an 87 Dodge van that would consistently stall turning left. There was a defect in the carburetor design that caused it to stall out with sufficient centrifugal force. No thought of replacing it.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

I think its a fair point, and worth exploring.

I think PR is constantly evolving how they handle these situations. When you look at how they've handled the powder coated SS sheets (poorly at first, and seem to be getting on top of it), to how they handled the banding issue and then the re-design of the MMU.

It's clear they have been trying to do the best they possibly can to please as many people as possible, whilst still trying to a) make a profit b) continue innovating c) remain open source and (mostly) transparent. (How many printers now have filament sensors after PR brought the MK3 to market ...)

I think this has not been balanced well. Backdating the free upgrade only 2 weeks seems pretty tight. That said, the only person who would have the numbers on things like, number of RMA'd sensors, logged faults etc etc is JP and the team at PR. Or maybe they only have enough stock at hand to backdate it 2 weeks??

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

How do you propose that work? Everyone ship their printers back to Prusa for the upgrade?

Clearly that won't work. That is why I said "some consideration". I assume that if you order the upgrade that you will also need to pay shipping. They could make the $20 charge cover preprinted parts and shipping. Or do something else reasonable that recognizes that folks that purchased the unit, particularly those that purchased the non-kit version, are being asked to do an upgrade that seems more like a fix. If you want, cap the consideration with some time limit of how old the machine is (6 months, 1 year, ?). As it is, they chose to do this for 2 weeks certainly does not address the issue. I don't want to be unreasonable in my expectations for Prusa here. But what they are currently doing seems pretty poor in my opinion.

That sounds reasonable.

I guess part of the reason why I'm not very concerned about all this is that:
1) It's not really an upgrade. It will give you a working runout sensor, but you lose the jam detection available under the old sensor. The rest of the Mk3s improvements look pretty good, but it's unlikely they'll make much improvement over the mk3. I don't find a runout sensor to be a very interesting feature. After all, most of the time we only run out once every kilo of filament. 😀
2) If you aren't going to use the MMU (where the sensor is very relevant), then you're probably better off printing an indirect sensor mod. Then you get all the features of the original sensor, (keeping jam detection).
3) If you really don't want to tear down your machine to do the replacement, then a "sit-on-top" mod is possibly a better option, needing only an hour or so of printing and no need to tear down the extruder.

And for all the people complaining about consumer rights. You have them. You can return your printer and request a refund (because it's pretty clear Prusa aren't going to get the original filament sensor to stop being touchy about some filaments anytime soon).

One thing Prusa do need to do is be more careful about what they put on their marketing material. Footnotes and careful check of all the claims made are important.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

While as a December buyer I certainly wouldn't mind a free or discounted upgrade, I also don't feel I'm entitled to one. There was plenty of time for me to do my research prior to purchase. The issues are well-documented in the community, and there are several remedies available on thingiverse. The open nature of the project makes it easy for the community to modify, and some community members appear to have done great work.

I am curious why Prusa decided to go with the mechanical/optical solution they chose instead of adopting one of the numerous indirect sensing mechanisms put forth by the community. This move seems somewhat sideways -- additional reliability but at the cost of decreased feature set. A sensor that can only detect runout isn't as useful as a sensor that can detect runout and jams. As martin wrote above, you only run out of filament every kilo or so, and you have a good feeling (by looking at the spool) for when a print is vulnerable to this happening.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

I agree $42.00 dollar $20 plus $22 to ship to the USA Total $42 why?

The upgrade is not needed someone already fixed the issue with the original sensor which is superior to the new ON Off switch. The original can sense filament jams. Here is the new R4 extruder with the fix https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3431164 . Still waiting on the Powder coated sheet for more than 14 months.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

Don't forget that there have been several improvements to the MK3 since the initial release until just before the release of the MK3S. I received a very early model of the MK3 which had all of the day one parts. After I received my printer, Prusa switched to official Gates belts and revamped the heatbed so that the wires weren't soldered on anymore. I don't recall anyone asking for free belts and a new heatbed.

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

Don't forget that there have been several improvements to the MK3 since the initial release until just before the release of the MK3S. I received a very early model of the MK3 which had all of the day one parts. After I received my printer, Prusa switched to official Gates belts and revamped the heatbed so that the wires weren't soldered on anymore. I don't recall anyone asking for free belts and a new heatbed.

Yeah, my MK3 almost isn't an MK3 anymore... I guess I'm pretty fortunate in that I only had an issue with my sensor once and pulling it out and very gently cleaning it with a lens wipe fixed it. I used the $20 survey voucher to upgrade my belts and get a spare PEI sheet and blower. Of course Prusa sent out the offer of free PEI sheets right after my spare PEI sheet arrived so I opted for the Powder Coated sheet, though I likely would have regardless but having a brand new spare made the choice a no brainer. Right now my only real beef with Prusa is the BS misinformation on lead times and the powder coated sheet fiasco. Shipping powder coated sheets with new orders prior to fulfilling prior orders really rubbed me wrong, otherwise I'd have to say it's a great printer for the price. That being said my a$$ is chapped enough with Prusa over their handling of the PC sheets and order delays that I'd be hard pressed to pre-order anything from them again but I'm likely in the minority there...

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

Personally, having bought and used a Chinese prusa copy before I bought a Mk3:

* The Mk3 works consistently so much better - bed adhesion is sooo much better, and getting stuff off sooo much easier.
* More temperature stable and quiet.
* I can usually just print and leave it to get on with it.

FDM printing is still a new technology - I suggest that it would be fairer to check back in 50 years to comment about sensors not working consistently. Anything to do with home FDM printing is a cutting edge, rapidly advancing technology. I have found that Zanusi still can't design a freezer with drain hole that actually drains water consistenly - and how long have we had freezers as a technology - a good deal longer. There again the fault just happens to appear 2 months after warranty ends lol.

FDM printers are too new, and evolving too quickly to get excited about some new features not working as we would like. I personally remain enthusiastic about my Mk 3 even though I now run it with the sensor off, use a totally different fan shroud material (annealed PLA), flash the latest firmware, slice on the beta software, - having an absolute ball with my Prusa and I have confidence that Prusa will keep working to make their product better, and pass advances on to us customers (fan in my case).

Cheers

Neil

Re: Why the Prusa MK3s upgrade should be free of charge

... I have found that Zanusi still can't design a freezer with drain hole that actually drains water consistenly - and how long have we had freezers as a technology - a good deal longer. There again the fault just happens to appear 2 months after warranty ends lol.

.....

From an old British motorcycle rider, you had to bring up freezers... Why do the English drink warm beer? Lucas makes their refrigerators... Maybe more relevant in the 70's But the electrical system on my Norton sucks big time, but I still love the bike.