MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience  

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

Hello,

Recently i have print a lot with ABS and I come here to share my experience with a cheap 1kg abs spool that i have adquired for 18€ in the grey color, i also have adquired 2KG pink for 19.98€, a bargain.
The brand is SUNLU from china, can be easy found at amazon with prime (free shipping), so i give it a try.
I have to say that i'm impressed, ABS is ABS and i don't like to spend a fortune on "high-tech" filament, so i like to try by myself the cheap alternatives near by me and easy to source.

Object: 163.80x163.80x74mm
Layer Height: 0.30mm, max speeds
Perimeters: 2
infill: 20%
Supports with no brim
Hotend: 240ºc
Bed: 120ºc/115ºc
No enclosure, but have a plastic bag covering the printer [55ºc ambient temperature with the bag - reported by printer electronics]

This had everything to go wrong, cheap filament, no brim, 1.8mm walls supporting the print, high speeds and supports needed but as soon it close the top on the square i saw a big success coming. Part come out very good given the print settings.
Me like others had/have very problems with MK3, i'm a pre R2 parts, but i have made tons of modifications and improvements and now the printer is tamed, once you know how to dominate the machine MK3 will print just great, and firmware is not perfect yet!

This kind of filament give you the advantage of beeing cheap, works, fast and easy to source with amazon and free shipping! Not the best ABS you will see but Prusa easyABS is a lot harder to print and stinks, sunlu in other hand is more easy to print, less bed temperature needed and do not stink.
Also i like to say that they sell as ABS+, PLA+, PETG+, the plus sign is just there for marketing, it's not a real ABS+.
I will buy more of these as soon as i need.

I also did a force test, as the fan not fit well on my mounting wall, i had to do very force to fit in place, the plastic didn't break, no cracks and i was pushing only a 3 perimeter wall to sides.

I've found not all ABS is ABS. ESPECIALLY the cheap stuff from china.

I have some ABS that I soked in Acetone for a few hours, and it did not melt. Could not make "glue" out of it.
(I mean, It was gluey... but it was VERY chunky)

I'm not sure what else was in there, but I assure you. It was not ABS.

I'm looking for a source of "pure" ABS for smoothing. (going to convert a small fish tank, into an acetone chamber.

My current "ABS" It prints like ABS, it feels like ABS. But it's NOT.

Just saying. Be careful with cheap filaments.

PS: I am by no means saying don't use it if it's not ABS. I'm just saying. Be careful buying cheap filament in bulk, until after you "test" it.
I bought 100$ of "Cheap" filament. Seemed too good to be true, so I bought a lot.

Yup. It was.
One of the spools, was so brittle, and impossible to print with, I couldn't print anything larger than ~25mmx25mm without it warping off the print bed. I actually dropped a thing made out of it, and it shattered. like, seriously... how?

if you came to me and said. "Hey, Sean, You want 10kg of this black filament? IT's only 10$.

I would honestly say. "No."

If they offered it to me for free, I would take it, and throw it in the trash, just to prevent someone else from attempting to print with it.

I burned half the spool ATTEMPTING to print something on my old monoprice. NEVER got it to print.
Said "I'm done" threw the spool into the closet. Got my mk3, and said "Ohhhyeah... I bet the mk3 can use that filament! It's sooooo goooooood when it comes to bed adhesion/warping."

Threw a print on there.

I had around a 75% fail rate, due to warping.

I've literally only tossed 3-4 prints due to warping, besides THAT specific spool's 10+ I tossed.

(And generally the prints I toss due to warping, is thanks to me never taking proper care of the print-sheet, and I don't count it, if I notice layer adhesion problems in the first 1-5 layers, just because that's like 95% of the time, my fault)

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

@sean.h8 i understand your point and make sense, i also doubt when i see something so cheap, i also didn't buy a lot, just one spool of grey, and two of the pink because is dam cheap, the pink one for 9.99 each 1KG maybe is because old lot or tolerance problems, don't know, i did a test with pink and i notice some small problems like infill do not close properly, i also did only one test with that, but for the price i can use it for hidden parts that not require to be perfect, like internal static holders for my filters. ABS by nature is cheap the extra additives company put into that turn that more expensive, that additives are put to improve filament for 3D printing, like ABS pro, ABS+, ABSgen etc that claim no warp and no smell, but in that case they are not ABS either or atleast not regular ABS because composition will be different. They also can be ok to afford eg: https://www.filafarm.de/collections/filament/products/absgen
So nowadays abs filaments come a bit more optimized for 3d printer to overcome some problems, ABS was not made thinking in 3D printing in first place, if you want pure abs is better to buy pure abs spheres without additives for that glue porpuse. Like the injection mold abs supply.

I also have read amazon reviews, mainly they are good, but i like to test by myself, and so far the output is positive, if you look at my model it come great given the properties. I have prusa easyABS, the brown is hard to print and crack easy, bed adhesion is bad and need 120ºc for everything small or big.
This SUNLU seens to be ok, i have done a temp tower with 100ºc bed and comeout ok, but again not the best ABS i have seen, i prefer the SAKATA more, another cheap ABS that looks better to me as ABS from spain.

If you have the opportunity test this for your ABS glue, 1 spool will not hurt and it print well if you can't do glue out of it. I can't prove by myself this is genuine ABS, but for my porpouse it's ok, i may test the temperature resistance but is guess it will be ok, otherwise some people would complain on amazon too. There are negative comments about this it's not ABS, but on that case they recieved a wrong spool of PLA or PETG. Also other negative comments are not printable, but we all know complicated people do exist and print ABS is not for every printer.
Their PETG is also cheap, worth the try.

Note when i say cheap i mean compared to well known brands, but in fact the price is near the same as others generics abs, not far from prusa, filafarm and others.
True is i will not give 40€ or 50€ for a 1KG abs spool, 30€ is my limit for normal ABS. And special abs to avoid fumes or warp is a waste of money when you can overcome that with normal ABS.

Not lot reviews about this brand, but would be good to see some from other people.
Amazon: https://tropicalprice.com/?query=sunlu&category=All&country=es

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

I want to try Sunlu, if only they shipped to SOCAL.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sunlu

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sunlu

Yup, I know but if I try to buy it says can't ship to your location. If I put my old addresses in other states it doesn't say that. Contacted Amazon, they confirmed some restrictions to where they ship this item. Weird.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

Weird indeed. Sorry.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

Weird indeed. Sorry.

Lol not your fault. May try shipping to a friend out of state. Do you like it? Been using eSun, Hatchbox, and MatterHackers with good results so far. But like options.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

I'm really concerned about all the inexpensive filament from over seas. You never know what's inside. There are no regulations at all. I don't feel comfortable to use this stuff in my home.
For example I can get MSDS from Makergeeks (ABS, PLA. And it's in their interest to stick to this sheets. Otherwise I could sue them. In case of all the no-name brands, who knows what kind of toxic stuff they have inside to make the plastic perform at such a cheap price.

So I'm willing to pay a little bit more (around $22/1kg) but getting something from a company which has to follow local rights and regulations.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

I'm really concerned about all the inexpensive filament from over seas. You never know what's inside. There are no regulations at all. I don't feel comfortable to use this stuff in my home.
For example I can get MSDS from Makergeeks (ABS, PLA. And it's in their interest to stick to this sheets. Otherwise I could sue them. In case of all the no-name brands, who knows what kind of toxic stuff they have inside to make the plastic perform at such a cheap price.

So I'm willing to pay a little bit more (around $22/1kg) but getting something from a company which has to follow local rights and regulations.

Great point thanks for the thoughts.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

That was my thought also.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

I'm really concerned about all the inexpensive filament from over seas. You never know what's inside. There are no regulations at all. I don't feel comfortable to use this stuff in my home.
For example I can get MSDS from Makergeeks (ABS, PLA. And it's in their interest to stick to this sheets. Otherwise I could sue them. In case of all the no-name brands, who knows what kind of toxic stuff they have inside to make the plastic perform at such a cheap price.

So I'm willing to pay a little bit more (around $22/1kg) but getting something from a company which has to follow local rights and regulations.

Well, i think everything deserve a try and not been descriminated just because its a no name or china brand, because they can be just as good as others. The price of thier ABS is almost same as prusa, and PETG cost more than prusa, that still don't mean nothing about quality.
They have certificate images on website, but they can be fake or self made, who knows: http://www.sunlugw.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=1383201
Without test and proper inspection will never know what inside, but other brands can also lie and add other additives too, EU made don't mean best quality or follow all safe rules.
This ABS crack and warp like any other abs, about fumes is much better than prusa ABS, the smell is not that noticable, and prusa otherwise make me sick and with headaches, but for who use a enclosure with filters that's not a problem, overall abs is not food safe so i think no one will use this for health reasons like pills holders and others.

And again: ABS itself is very cheap, the extra additives they put in is what made them expensive, so expensiver ABS brands can be more dangerous than pure abs due chemicals to print easy on a 3d printer.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

So I'm willing to pay a little bit more (around $22/1kg) but getting something from a company which has to follow local rights and regulations.

Let me give you an example of why I *HATE* filament in the USA right now.

Makergeeks Raptor PLA
79.95$ per KG (this is what they say it's worth)
37.48$ per KG (This is what they actually sell it for... over half off!

Natureworks 3D870 PLA
https://www.filabot.com/collections/filament/products/pla-pellets-3d870
12.28$/kg (NOT a bulk-seller of this resin, so the price does NOT go down with "bulk" it is "individually bagged" in 1KG baggies, not in the "industry standard" 1ton bags. So the plastic is worth MUCH less than they are selling it for.

Both of these resins are VERY similar in their properties.

It's just one costs 8x more than the other.

Do you think the "Extrusion" is worth ~70$/kg?

Let me write this as a business proposal.

"Hey dude, can I borrow 15,000$ extruder system that can extrude about 5kg/hour, and sell the filament I extrude for around 60$kg/profit. I can run it 12 hours a day myself. I'll pay you back 20,000$ in 3 months. Not that it will take that long to make that profit, it's just I need to sell the material before I can pay it back. I could actually extrude that much filament in under a week!"

60*5*12 = 3600$ profit/day.
3600*5 = 18,000$ 5 day week.
18,000*52 = 936,000$ / year

That is a SMALL *OVERPRICED* extruder.

Do you think it's "ok" for a "middleman" to change the shape of a plastic, and charge 7x more than the plastic cost to create in the first place?!?!??!

If I see filament for sale over 25$/kg, I feel SICK.

*NO* filament should cost more than 25$/kg.

What, you want to see how much 'normal' HTPLA is worth?
It's worth less than 8$/kg.
Regular PLA+ is worth about 6$/kg.
Regular Junk-Grade PLA is worth about 3$/kg.
ABS is worth around 3$/kg as well.

Seriously guys, to say you "support" american filament MFG when their price is LITERALLY...
European prices + Shipping to USA

Seriously look it up.

Any "quality" filament in the USA, costs about the same as buying it from Europe, and shipping it halfway around the world... amusingly... Most European plastic resin is MADE IN THE USA.

So it's "cheaper" to buy the filament after shipping the resin from the USA, to Europe... Than it is to buy it in the USA.

I am actually looking into building an extruder, to try to sell filament, the ONLY reason I am waiting, is I am afraid Prusa will bottom the price in the USA when they come. (They sell PLA for ~20$/kg, PETG for ~25$/kg, and if they have free/decent shipping in the USA, their prices will be ~25-30$/kg I think)

I just bought 2kg of nGen from Prusa for 35$ + 25$ shipping, total 60$.
That's 30$/kg.
Everyone in the USA is selling 0.75kg spools of nGen for 38.95$
That's 51.93$/kg.

THE SAME FILAMENT.
MADE FROM THE SAME EXTRUDER.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

Well, i think everything deserve a try and not been descriminated just because its a no name or china brand, because they can be just as good as others.

I don't discriminate any company and I don't mean branded filament is better then non-branded. My point is that local companies can be made responsible for their action, overseas companies not!
Knowing how textile industry is using toxic materials for colouring, I expect to see the same thing in the plastic source industry. If there are no regulations at all, companies will try to achieve most profit at all costs. And of course you don't need to have the plastic in the mouth. Don't forget, we are melting this stuff in our homes and many fumes and particles are released during this process.

Natureworks 3D870 PLA
https://www.filabot.com/collections/filament/products/pla-pellets-3d870
12.28$/kg (NOT a bulk-seller of this resin, so the price does NOT go down with "bulk" it is "individually bagged" in 1KG baggies, not in the "industry standard" 1ton bags. So the plastic is worth MUCH less than they are selling it for.

I'm not sure how you're trying to compare pellets versus QC passed and delivered 1kg read to go spools.
Manufacturing costs money, paying employees costs money, buying and maintaining your manufacturing hardware costs money, customer support, shipping ....

If you really think current plastic manufacturer are making huge profit, go ahead and start your own company.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

I'm not sure how you're trying to compare pellets versus QC passed and delivered 1kg read to go spools.
Manufacturing costs money, paying employees costs money, buying and maintaining your manufacturing hardware costs money, customer support, shipping ....

If you really think current plastic manufacturer are making huge profit, go ahead and start your own company.

Spool, around 2$.
15$/5/3 = 1$
12.28$
Rent 1000 / (24*20*5) = 0.40$
Utilities, insurance, etc. 1$

I'm quite sure that if you can get me that money in the next 3 months, I could pay you back +50% within 2 years.
sarcasm//

Edit: why did I even write this. I specifically said filament from Europe, using USA made resin, is fantastic, with cheap prices... Even including shipping, I can buy high quality filament cheaper than domestic.

Your right. Companies in Europe don't have

Manufacturing costs money, paying employees costs money, buying and maintaining your manufacturing hardware costs money, customer support, shipping ....

That's why they are so much cheaper, yet maintain top quality.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

If you have a business degree... then go for it. I think it's clear you don't have a clue what it takes to run a business in this country. You're missing at least 75% of the costs in your itemization.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

If you have a business degree... then go for it. I think it's clear you don't have a clue what it takes to run a business in this country. You're missing at least 75% of the costs in your itemization.

Clearly. That's why despite my math is apparently missing 75% of the costs... I can buy the filament I say is worth ~28$ for ~31$.

I'm getting tired of people telling me I'm an idiot.
https://madmakerfilament.com/

But do me a favor, and tell this guy he's an idiot too. I'm sure he would appreciate it.

Because my math, is essentially the same as him. I am sure he would LOVE your professional advise on "You don't know what you are doing.".

I personally like the guy. I would contact him myself, and tell him. "Hey dude, all that money you thought you were making is a lie. Some dude on the forum told me so. But I'm not sure what you guys are referring to about the these other costs, that amount to 75% of the costs, so other than going to him and saying "Hey dude. I don't know anything about running a busisness becuase I was told on a forum I dont, but I was told my business concept, which yeilded a price within 10% of yours, and I was shut down, and told, I missed 75% of the price. That tells me you are also missing 75% of the price. I would advise you to seek bankrupcy immediately, given your MASSIVE losses of around 90$/kg of filament you sell!"

I'm sure he would *LOVE* to know that. But as I said above, I don't know that much.

If I'm missing 75% of the cost, by my math, and his math is the same as mine. (It's what he's selling it for) Someone should tell him, he's loosing 90$/kg.

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

The other's costs are also the spool's, electric expenses, packing, seal and maybe others. The mad maker is printing the spool holder which i never saw before but i like what he did, the design looks very cool, looks like volcano print head 😀
I buy PLA for 16€ from BQ europe, a company and bulk fabrication will be cheaper but also need a lot of investment to reach that phase.
Thumbs up for mad maker for fighting high cost filament makers which only have thier profit in mind and not people.

I would really like to see a filament comparision at composition/atom level, in end we would cath some lies and marketing that companies put in

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

I'm getting tired of people telling me I'm an idiot.

You made me smile. 🙂

Most of the stuff is sold out (not available) at https://madmakerfilament.com/
The price is comparable to the other brands.
Madmaker: $18 + shipping costs
Makergeeks: $21.55, on sale around $18, no shipping costs
Matterhackers: $22.95, no shipping costs

Re: MK3 + Cheap ABS + 8h print experience

Most of the stuff is sold out (not available) at https://madmakerfilament.com/
The price is comparable to the other brands.
Madmaker: $18 + shipping costs
Makergeeks: $21.55, on sale around $18, no shipping costs
Matterhackers: $22.95, no shipping costs

Madmaker's filament is a much higher grade PLA than the resin's at those prices. Mad Maker's PLA+ compares with their 30$ filaments. (which with madmaker's shipping it's not a lot cheaper)

But then again, Madmaker being a "small" extruder, that I'm guessing is run out of a garage style shop... They don't have the good "shipping" deals the big guys have.

Even the "super cheap filament" I like to buy excess amounts of... (It's chinese, and of dubious quality, both resin and extrusion) But 11$/kg delivered... mmmmm...

I've been hunting for a "premium" resin, with "maybe not the best" extrusion, for ~20-25$.

My MadMaker filament, is around 25-50% stronger than any PLA I have, except my "expensive" stuff.
That I keep secret, becuase amazon has prices wrong, and I get it UNDER 15$/kg. (And once I get a 3mm extruder on my Snappy and/or mk3, I'm gonna be paying ~7.50$/kg, for filament that normally sells for 30-40$/kg...

But that's neither here, nor there, and there's no way there's profit being made on that, that's just simply dumping inventory.

Yeah, I don't know why MadMaker's got everything sold out... 2 weeks ago, he had full inventory. I'm guessing he makes 10kg of each color at a time, and he has been waiting to need to "work a few days" to replenish inventory.

I think the "sold out" issue he has makes him look shady.
I will say, that I ordered my stuff on Friday night, and it was in the post Monday morning, so he don't play "games" with orders. (at least not mine)