Small problem on one edge of box  

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Hello Rob!

Well somethings that could casue rough areas are an x-axis or y-axis moving jerky.

How do the axes behave when pushed/pulled gently now - especially near the area that the bad corner of the box were at print time?

How did the linear bearings felt when moved a piece at a time over the rod at assemble time?

Is there any play in respective bearing?

/Henrik

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Hi there

Everything feels and sounds uniformly normal. I did some more tests after changing some basic things like temps, live z, z height calib, but no change.

💡 One thing I was able to confirm is that the problematic corner is the one where the z layer change occurs. Perhaps significant ❓

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

💡 One thing I was able to confirm is that the problematic corner is the one where the z layer change occurs. Perhaps significant ❓

Yes. Depending on your temperatures and retraction settings, you can see the little "blips" from the Z layer change.

In Slic3r you can set if you want them to occur at the nearest spot, at random spots, or aligned. If you do random, the problem will be much less visible.

Lowering your temp 5 deg and lowing down your retraction settings might minimize the effect.

A cylinder is a quick test item to determine the best settings for you.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

This was sliced using PrusaControl (indeed I have only used PrusaControl so far).

Is it worth re-slicing with Slic3r first (with default config) and see what happens, or is this just a waste of time? I guess what I am really asking is, can you expect a difference in gcode using default settings between the two apps?

Thanks

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

This was sliced using PrusaControl (indeed I have only used PrusaControl so far).

Is it worth re-slicing with Slic3r first (with default config) and see what happens, or is this just a waste of time? I guess what I am really asking is, can you expect a difference in gcode using default settings between the two apps?

Thanks

Yes. While they use the same basic slicing engine inside, they have different options (Slic3r gives you more control) and you will have different results.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Ok, well I have done some reasonably extensive testing using Slic3r.

The settings I concentrated on changing mainly related to the Retraction settings.

I first set the Seam position to Random. Sure enough this revealed the "issue". Little holes on the exterior shell where the layer change occurs and under-extrusion on the inside. The model in the photos is 40mm long with a wall thickness of 1mm.

I have subsequently tried a number of settings combos (retraction length and speed mainly), even to the point of turning off Retraction altogether. Every setting combo I tried resulted in minimal change to the print (ie little change to the issue).

As per the photos, are the little holes and under-extrusion fairly normal when printing with the Seam position set to random? Am I expecting a little too much from the printer perhaps?

Would performing an extruder calibration (as I have yet to do so) likely make any difference to this type of issue? Yes, I know, why not just do one and see. Except I have chewed through a lot of time already 😐

Thanks

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

No. That is not normal.

Please post your Slic3r settings and we can see if we see anything strange.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Here is the last one I tried:

# generated by Slic3r 1.37.1-prusa3d-win64 on Sat Sep 30 18:50:08 2017
avoid_crossing_perimeters = 0
bed_shape = 0x0,250x0,250x210,0x210
bed_temperature = 55
before_layer_gcode =
bottom_solid_layers = 7
bridge_acceleration = 1000
bridge_angle = 0
bridge_fan_speed = 100
bridge_flow_ratio = 0.8
bridge_speed = 20
brim_width = 0
clip_multipart_objects = 1
complete_objects = 0
cooling = 1
default_acceleration = 1000
deretract_speed = 0
disable_fan_first_layers = 1
dont_support_bridges = 1
duplicate_distance = 6
elefant_foot_compensation = 0
end_filament_gcode = "; Filament-specific end gcode \n;END gcode for filament\n"
end_gcode = G4 ; wait\nM104 S0 ; turn off temperature\nM140 S0 ; turn off heatbed\nM107 ; turn off fan\nG1 X0 Y200; home X axis\nM84 ; disable motors
ensure_vertical_shell_thickness = 1
external_fill_pattern = rectilinear
external_perimeter_extrusion_width = 0.45
external_perimeter_speed = 25
external_perimeters_first = 0
extra_perimeters = 0
extruder_clearance_height = 20
extruder_clearance_radius = 20
extruder_colour = #FFFF00
extruder_offset = 0x0
extrusion_axis = E
extrusion_multiplier = 1
extrusion_width = 0.45
fan_always_on = 1
fan_below_layer_time = 100
filament_colour = #0080FF
filament_cost = 0
filament_density = 0
filament_diameter = 1.75
filament_max_volumetric_speed = 0
filament_notes = "List of materials tested with standart PLA print settings for MK2:\n\nDas Filament\nEsun PLA\nEUMAKERS PLA\nFiberlogy HD-PLA\nFillamentum PLA\nFloreon3D\nHatchbox PLA\nPlasty Mladeč PLA\nPrimavalue PLA\nProto pasta Matte Fiber\nVerbatim PLA\nVerbatim BVOH"
filament_settings_id =
filament_soluble = 0
filament_type = PLA
fill_angle = 45
fill_density = 20%
fill_pattern = cubic
first_layer_acceleration = 1000
first_layer_bed_temperature = 55
first_layer_extrusion_width = 0.42
first_layer_height = 0.2
first_layer_speed = 70%
first_layer_temperature = 215
gap_fill_speed = 40
gcode_comments = 0
gcode_flavor = reprap
infill_acceleration = 2000
infill_every_layers = 1
infill_extruder = 1
infill_extrusion_width = 0.45
infill_first = 0
infill_only_where_needed = 0
infill_overlap = 25%
infill_speed = 60
interface_shells = 0
layer_gcode =
layer_height = 0.15
max_fan_speed = 100
max_layer_height = 0.25
max_print_speed = 100
max_volumetric_extrusion_rate_slope_negative = 0
max_volumetric_extrusion_rate_slope_positive = 0
max_volumetric_speed = 0
min_fan_speed = 85
min_layer_height = 0.07
min_print_speed = 15
min_skirt_length = 4
notes =
nozzle_diameter = 0.4
octoprint_apikey =
octoprint_host =
only_retract_when_crossing_perimeters = 0
ooze_prevention = 0
output_filename_format = [input_filename_base].gcode
overhangs = 0
perimeter_acceleration = 800
perimeter_extruder = 1
perimeter_extrusion_width = 0.45
perimeter_speed = 40
perimeters = 3
post_process =
print_settings_id =
printer_notes =
printer_settings_id =
raft_layers = 0
resolution = 0
retract_before_travel = 1
retract_before_wipe = 0%
retract_layer_change = 1
retract_length = 1
retract_length_toolchange = 3
retract_lift = 0
retract_lift_above = 1
retract_lift_below = 199
retract_restart_extra = 0
retract_restart_extra_toolchange = 0
retract_speed = 5
seam_position = random
serial_port =
serial_speed = 250000
single_extruder_multi_material = 0
skirt_distance = 2
skirt_height = 3
skirts = 1
slowdown_below_layer_time = 25
small_perimeter_speed = 20
solid_infill_below_area = 0
solid_infill_every_layers = 0
solid_infill_extruder = 1
solid_infill_extrusion_width = 0.45
solid_infill_speed = 40
spiral_vase = 0
standby_temperature_delta = -5
start_filament_gcode = "; Filament gcode\n"
start_gcode = M115 U3.0.12 ; tell printer latest fw version\nM83 ; extruder relative mode\nM104 S[first_layer_temperature] ; set extruder temp\nM140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; set bed temp\nM190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; wait for bed temp\nM109 S[first_layer_temperature] ; wait for extruder temp\nG28 W ; home all without mesh bed level\nG80 ; mesh bed leveling\nG1 Y-3.0 F1000.0 ; go outside pritn area\nG1 X60.0 E9.0 F1000.0 ; intro line\nG1 X100.0 E12.5 F1000.0 ; intro line
support_material = 0
support_material_angle = 0
support_material_buildplate_only = 0
support_material_contact_distance = 0.15
support_material_enforce_layers = 0
support_material_extruder = 1
support_material_extrusion_width = 0.35
support_material_interface_contact_loops = 0
support_material_interface_extruder = 1
support_material_interface_layers = 2
support_material_interface_spacing = 0.2
support_material_interface_speed = 100%
support_material_pattern = rectilinear
support_material_spacing = 2
support_material_speed = 50
support_material_synchronize_layers = 0
support_material_threshold = 45
support_material_with_sheath = 0
support_material_xy_spacing = 60%
temperature = 210
thin_walls = 0
threads = 4
toolchange_gcode =
top_infill_extrusion_width = 0.45
top_solid_infill_speed = 30
top_solid_layers = 9
travel_speed = 120
use_firmware_retraction = 0
use_relative_e_distances = 1
use_volumetric_e = 0
variable_layer_height = 1
wipe = 1
wipe_tower = 1
wipe_tower_per_color_wipe = 15
wipe_tower_width = 60
wipe_tower_x = 180
wipe_tower_y = 140
xy_size_compensation = 0
z_offset = 0

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Some people have had good luck - with THIN walled objects - of doing the external perimeters first. Normally you want that off - but for thin walls it can help.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Tried the external perimeters first. All that did was to essentially reverse the issue so that the holes were on the inside and the under-extrusion sections were on the outside.

The weird thing that I noticed when trying different settings before was that the print output changed very little, even though I was making some (what I assume was) fairly large setting changes to the retraction settings. 😮

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Have you tried tuning your extruder multiplier? I've had similar issues with over/underextrusion that changing the extrusion multiplier helped with. In the end, on my Mk2s, I ended up setting the e-steps in firmware instead that way I could use the same extrusion multiplier for both my Mk2s and Mk2/MMU which had a dead perfect 100mm extrusion.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

No haven't touched the extruder multiplier. Will look into that. Thanks.

However, not to be outdone by a machine 😆 I performed some more radical tuning on the retraction settings, and I have had some "success", in that I have gone from the under-extrusion issue to full on over-extrusion, complete with blobs (instead of holes). I'm excited. 😯

Now the problem being I changed quite a few settings at once, which of course is not a good idea 😳

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

For those playing along at home, this issue seems to have been mostly about the extruder multiplier setting. I have increased that to 1.08 and the under-extrusion on the inside layers has pretty much disappeared. The little holes on the exterior are still there but not as prominent.

I haven't performed the extruder calibration, but perhaps it might be an interesting exercise. Anyhow I can live with things the way they are now and I gather it is not possible to totally remove blips when performing a layer change so I think life is too short to worry further 😉

Thanks for the help.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Maybe your thermistor is a bit off and the nozzle is cooler than the printer thinks? If I were you, I would try to bump the extruder temperature 5 or 10 degrees up.

Re: Small problem on one edge of box

Maybe your thermistor is a bit off and the nozzle is cooler than the printer thinks? If I were you, I would try to bump the extruder temperature 5 or 10 degrees up.

Increasing the extruder temp made no difference unfortunately.

I think I am chasing my tail now. If these little blips on layer change are not normal then I must have a slight mechanical issue somewhere, but the debugging time required to sort that out is way beyond my sanity levels 😐