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Brandon Mott
(@brandon-mott)
Active Member
Poor bed adhesion

Recently I've begun having some terrible issues with bed adhesion even when just printing with basic PLA from Tianse. When printing the first layer of supports they often curl up or stick to the nozzle rather than sticking to the bed. The nozzle height is actually quite low to try to get some of it to stick and if I go higher, to the point where a calibration turns out as it should, the supports simply won't stick to the bed they just curl up onto the nozzle. I've tried cleaning the bed with acetone and ipa, I've used a brass brush to try to clean old filament off the nozzle and nothing seems to work for getting the supports to stick to the bed. Just today I tried covering my bed in blue tape (and adjusted the nozzle height by .15mm to accommodate) and it stuck quite well but I would expect the pei to work better than tape.

Opublikowany : 07/12/2017 2:20 am
AJS
 AJS
(@ajs)
Noble Member
Re: Poor bed adhesion

Its sounds like you have tried the typical things: 1) Get a very good Live Z setting, 2) Make sure the bed is (really) clean.

Given that, I can only think of a few things that might help us see what is going on.

1) Post a photo of your Live Z calibration square from Step 6 here:
http://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/-before-you-ask-troubleshooting-video-updated--t472.html#p39190
so we can see what we can discern from that photo.
2) Make sure the IPA and acetone you are using is as pure as you can find. The 70% IPAs have additives that prevent adhesion, as does the acetone for nails (good for nails, bad for printers).
3) Make sure you have a recent XYZ calibration. If it has shifted, you will get strange results.
4) PLA should not curl up much. I am surprised this is an issue. What is the bed temperature of your prints? The filament temperature?

I guess we need a bit more info to help...

Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss. If you solve your problem, please post the solution…

Opublikowany : 07/12/2017 3:36 am
AJS
 AJS
(@ajs)
Noble Member
Re: Poor bed adhesion

Its sounds like you have tried the typical things: 1) Get a very good Live Z setting, 2) Make sure the bed is (really) clean.

Given that, I can only think of a few things that might help us see what is going on.

1) Post a photo of your Live Z calibration square from Step 6 here:
http://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/-before-you-ask-troubleshooting-video-updated--t472.html#p39190
so we can see what we can discern from that photo.
2) Make sure the IPA and acetone you are using is as pure as you can find. The 70% IPAs have additives that prevent adhesion, as does the acetone for nails (good for nails, bad for printers).
3) Make sure you have a recent XYZ calibration. If it has shifted, you will get strange results.
4) PLA should not curl up much. I am surprised this is an issue. What is the bed temperature of your prints? The filament temperature?

I guess we need a bit more info to help...

Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss. If you solve your problem, please post the solution…

Opublikowany : 07/12/2017 3:36 am
Brandon Mott
(@brandon-mott)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Poor bed adhesion

I'll try to post a picture of the z calibration tomorrow I've got a print running now

IPA is 91% highest in the store i got it from acetone is from a hardware store and the msds gives 60-100% content saying it is a trade secret but does not give any other ingrediants.

I did an xyz calibration about a week ago though I guess I could do another one

Bed temp of 55 and extruder temp of 215 (maybe too high? i haven't seen issues with print quality but possibly making adhesion worse?)
EDIT: For the extruder temp I use 215 for the first layer and then 210 for the rest of the print

Opublikowany : 07/12/2017 3:52 am
AJS
 AJS
(@ajs)
Noble Member
Re: Poor bed adhesion


I'll try to post a picture of the z calibration tomorrow I've got a print running now

IPA is 91% highest in the store i got it from acetone is from a hardware store and the msds gives 60-100% content saying it is a trade secret but does not give any other ingrediants.

I did an xyz calibration about a week ago though I guess I could do another one

Bed temp of 55 and extruder temp of 215 (maybe too high? i haven't seen issues with print quality but possibly making adhesion worse?)
EDIT: For the extruder temp I use 215 for the first layer and then 210 for the rest of the print

Please do post the calibration square photo. You can find 99% IPA and Acetone. Price is the same. Worth it.

Temps seem fine for a MK2.

Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss. If you solve your problem, please post the solution…

Opublikowany : 08/12/2017 2:12 am
Brandon Mott
(@brandon-mott)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Poor bed adhesion

Here's the first layer calibration square. I can tell it's slightly too close to the bed but not severe. Also this is without re-doing the xyz calibration.

Opublikowany : 08/12/2017 5:05 pm
AJS
 AJS
(@ajs)
Noble Member
Re: Poor bed adhesion

I agree with your assessment. A bit too close, but not big, and looks uniform (enough). I would count this as a good Live-Z.

So I would approach this as a possible contaminants on the bed. What I do periodically is clean the bed with Windex (blue window cleaner). This leaves a residue, but also removes most oils and grease. Then clean with as pure an acetone as I can find, and then with pure IPA. It seems silly, but each of these things cleans different things, and this process has brought my bed back to new like condition. I really only had problems that needed this when I was experimenting with lots of filament types. Lately I have been doing only PLA, so I have not had to do this in a long time.

Others on this forum (not me) use a 3000 grit sanding surface (usually a sponge like thing) to mechanically clean the surface. They seem to swear by this technique, so I am passing it on.

The last thing to consider is if the problem might be the filament itself. Have you tried a different roll from a different brand, just to see if they have an additive that is preventing adhesion?

Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss. If you solve your problem, please post the solution…

Opublikowany : 09/12/2017 2:59 am
john.k14
(@john-k14)
New Member
Re: Poor bed adhesion

I was having similar issues and what works for me with PLA is good old AquaNet hairspray using temps of 195 and 50. You will want to use an empty box of filament or something to catch the overspray though because the stuff can come out more splattery than a fine mist. It doesn't seem to matter if I spray it on a cold build plate or after it has heated up but I do wait for all the droplets to evaporate. I clean the bed afterwards with Acetone and then finish cleaning with a single use alcohol prep pad. This has worked perfectly with PLA from Prusa, Matterhackers and Hatchbox so far. I was using 3M blue tape and was having okay adhesion and then tried cleaning the surface of the blue tape with an alcohol prep pad and this wound up sticking so well that it was EXTREMELY hard to get off! (TWSS) Plus, the blue tape is nearly impossible to remove from the model once you've free'd it from it's epoxy-like predicament so I would recommend the hairspray option first. I hope this helps, make sure you wear gloves or oven mitts when prying your model off the build plate - don't gouge a hole in your hand!

Notes & Specific Labeling:
Hairspray - AquaNet Unscented, All Weather, Professional Hairspray, Extra Super Hold (Walmart)
Acetone - JASCO brand (Home Depot)
Alcohol Prep Pad - Curad Brand Alcohol Prep Pads 70% IPA (Costco)
Blue Tape - 3M's original blue painter's tape, the version with a slight texture to it and NO lettering on it's face. (Home Depot)

Opublikowany : 09/12/2017 10:33 pm
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