new member with problems printing ABS  

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

I feel your pain. I have problems as well. What bed temperature are you using? you want 100C and give it some time to heat. For extruder 255C is what the MK2 seems to be set for but down to 240C usually works OK. What do you mean by its "burning?" It really shouldn't at that temp. Just don't leave the extruder heated for a long time without it running. For cooling, TURN IT OFF for ABS.

Try all these standard settings before playing around switching anything, and if you switch it and it doesn't fix your problem, go back top the previous settings. It should work decent without any changes. If not it may be a different problem. If you only have used Slic3r, try Cura also. I've had better luck with it actually.

Are things sticking? That is usually the biggest problem. The PEI surface should work fine without ABS Juice but I think there is a FW bug that makes the Z level vary so its hard if not impossible for it to stay consistent. I use Buildtak which is very tolerant of poor Z level adjustments.

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

thanks for the reply.

Bed is at 100 i tried 105 and 110 and didn't see any improvements. i'm using ABS juice so my first layer is sticking perfectly, no lifting on the corners. The PEI surface was not sticking well to the ABS and i cleaned it with 100% Alcohol, i gave up on the raw PEI and coated it with ABS juice have not had an issue with prints moving around or not sticking since that.

at the 255 i get burnt pieces of white ABS that get melted into the rest of the print i'm making at the time, reducing 5 degrees down from 255 reduced the number of burnt pieces and going to 250 helped more so i wanted to start going into the 245-240 range. Hatchbox has a much lower rating on the label for the extruder heat 215-240 from what i remember.

i attempted to print ABS at 215 without the auto cool turned off and it turned into a melted blob within 10 minutes.

the standard settings have not been working for me at all all melted and blobs and lots of zits.
I tried increasing the number of items to try and get the cooling time up and it seems the retractions are causing more problems adding to the existing issues.

i have not tried any other slicing software other then slic3r. i'm willing to try something else.

my extruder fan is working, i just have larger fan turned off. for autocooling i have it turned off for the first 3 layers.

i'll try to post some more photos tonight.

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

ok, i Downloaded CURA just finished installing and i used one of my parts i made i put the settings for ABS and high Quality.

I like that Cura is setup to run the Bed calibration first before heating up. the print just started at 6:44PM should be 20 minutes about.

it set the temp to 230 and the bed to 80, first layer went down looks ok.

i just noticed my main cooling fan is running... hummm.

Ok i decided 2 tests.

let CURA run as is with defaults.
then i setup Slic3er with similar settings. turned autocool back on since Cura seems to be doing the same thing according to the settings panel.
Ponteface tells me the CURA file takes 20 minutes and the Slic3r version 1 hour.

so i will run both times with similar settings and see what happens.

Cura just finished part looks pretty good. it screwed right on to the other part i made a few days ago in slic3r
it has some surface zits.

i just figured out how to change the default .06 layer height to .05....

comments the Cura part looks nicer in some ways the infills are much nicer looking verse Slic3er.

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

silc3r just finished.

the part took 3 times as long as CURA and is just slightly smoother on the outside, the bottom infill is not as good as CURA but the bottom shape is a little more defined with slic3r.

dimensionally parts are the same and the fit is about the same, slic3r just slighly tighter then the CURA version

with CURA being faster for similar output i lean towards CURA and wonder what to play with to fix the surface a little.

I'm liking the features CURA has 🙂

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

Wow, thank you for the CURA recommendation I've made more progress tonight then in a week.
Still having issues getting it just right. I tried using experimental coasting and it didn't go well.

Here is where i got tonight, Tamiya CVA shock recreation using Fusion 360 all plastic parts recreated. My first time using Fusion 360 also so it was a good learning experience. i have about 20 hours into the mesh for the shock parts. had to do a bunch of fusion 360 XML modifications also to get what i wanted. can't believe its my first design i made in software i never touched a week ago. The shock body came out MUCH cleaner in CURA then in Slic3r.
auto cool was turned on.

the shock is assembled and filled with oil, seals are holding. came right off the print bed, almost no clean up for assembly. now i can tweak the design and improve it.

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

interesting,,, so apparently the ABS gets supper brittle over time.

the prints look nice and seemed strong when just out of the printer but i guess when they cool over say 12 hours they get super brittle on the layers.

anybody with lots of ABS experience out there? or do i need to move to another type of filament?

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

Have you experimented with annealing your ABS parts? I have far less experience with this than you do because I'm in the backorder queue, but in my research I've found several references that annealing printed parts (PLA, ABS and other materials) can markedly reduce brittleness. Be prepared for both shrinkage and growth along different axes.

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

i read about the process, the problem is you introduce more dimensional issues.
also you end up with a part just a little stronger.

I gave up on ABS and Switched to Nylon.

Nylon has the same problems as ABS plus more shrinkage.

i find the problem is with either material is areas under 10mm. a small layer introduces the problem of mandatory cooling.

these materials do not like to be cooled during printing because they do not bond well layer to layer. but if you do not cool them you end up with a melted blob.

as parts get smaller they become weaker on there own just by dimension. so you have tiny parts that need to be mechanically strong but are weak just by printing them.

I looked at other designs people made and i noticed everything is scaled up not only because of strength but because of the introduction of cooling to stabilize layers as they get smaller and smaller.

so you have this frustrating Finite Size something can be when mechanical strength is needed. Nylon is much stronger then ABS so you get a little more flexability in 3d printing to small sized parts.

but there is a limit and i'm concluding that at certain Sizes of mechanical parts you cannot use ABS or Nylon filament for the part itself. you must make a Mould of the part in lets say Fusion 3d print the mould and then cast the part you need from Resins that resemble Nylon or ABS. thus the larger mass of the mould allows heat dissipation to hold detail plus the non-mechanical nature of the mould in using it to make the Casting for the usable parts.

the other option is you must scale up the designs.

now i have no used a smaller nozzle which might change this situation i'm still experimenting with various filaments trying to feel around in the dark 😀

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

seems i'm running into the max resolution the printer can handle with the .4 standard nozzle in addition to the max area the filament can handle as far as being melted and cooled and keeping strength.

as suspected if i take the part the printer is having trouble making and scale it up 1.25 times it can produce the part.

for Nylon you have to keep the fan off the entire time. Any cooling you use causes some degree of strength loss in de-lamination of the layers. Nylon seems to Suck heat right out of the hot end of the extruder to the point you get Thermal runaways very easily.

for ABS you can only heat it so high before it starts to burn.

in dealing with Thermal Runaway which is where the extruder temp drops 15 degrees C from your hold setting you can only use so much cooling fan. I found holding 255 degrees only allows about 40-60% fan depending on the material Nylon will suck the heat away fast and 40-50% is as much as you can use. 250-245 allows 60-70% fan.

ABS can does not suck the heat out like Nylon and you can go to 100% at 255 and hold it.

in dealing with mechanical for the technology today nylon is the way to go. it is stronger, the heat sucking ability means you don't have to worry too much about cooling only on really small parts. the shrinkage is worse then ABS.

for nylon, Blue painters tape works really well however the glue on the tape will pull off the bed as the nylon cools and warp it.
the best is using a non-solvent Glue stick and make a Large Brim around your parts.

you will still need to play around with your part designs, as what you make in your 3d shape software may not be possible to output from the printer.

making Sharp transition edges between areas of the part makes them brittle at that point so i recommend adding a chamfer/bevel even a small one between the 2 plains can massively increase strength. for abs and nylon it helps because the shrink of the material causes micro fractures as it cools after getting laid down. the chamfer also helps smooth the prints a small chamfer will also shrink back and look similar to a sharp edge.

so with nylon go as hot as possible and increase size in areas where the material just melts and has no detail
with ABS go as hot as you can before the plastic starts to turn brown and burn.
both are similar with problems.
PLA seems to be the only material that will hold small details, due to the cooler print temps.

when you need something small and strong, 3d print a Mould and cast the part from resin as one piece. it kind of defeats the purpose of 3d printing but if you have no part to mould from to start it gets you going, 3d print the weak ABS or Nylon version check it for fit. RTV cast it, then do a resin pour or you can design the Mould on the 3d printer use ninjaFlex or Nylon Bridge to make the multi-piece mould any way you want with DE-gassing paths, cast the part and then you can keep reproducing them as needed. Simulated Nylon or ABS resin is much stronger then 3d printing. as is injection moulding.

Re: new member with problems printing ABS

hopefully this helps someone in the future:

with Taulman bridge nylon i found if you use more then 10% cooling fan with the extruder temperature at 250-255 degrees the nylon becomes extremely brittle.

if you try using no fan at all with the extruder under 240 degrees once again the nylon becomes extremely brittle and de-laminates easy.

this leaves a frustratingly small working range with nylon and making parts with a diameter under 6mm either end up melted and unusable or pretty and very brittle, even with the flexibility of Bridge nylon they will snap in your hand.

thus you have to redesign parts large and thick enough to go down to the minimal extruder temp and not use the fan, any use of the fan decreases bonding and strength of the part you make.