Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
...Like you, I have been through "the mill". I did struggle early on, but I took a step back and realised that all this would not be possible without Josef and people like him. He is a young man, learning about business and making mistakes on the way (been there, done that etc...).
Right brother. The thing runs so well for its price that we tend to forget that it is a #reprap machine, not a commercial one. There is a culture behind that movement that we could all benefit to learn from and give back. 🙂
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Maybe we should not bother trying new things hey David?
The complete answer to this problem would be a complete metal heatbed design so the pinda picks up the bed no matter where it is but thats a complete redesign of the heatbed and not something we MK2 owners can do unless you get some super expensive thin ali to place over the bed.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Maybe we should not bother trying new things hey David?
I didn't say that. But we definitely should not try it the way which is obvious dead end.
Yes, full metal heated bed would definitely work, but it still doesn't resolve the problem of software bug, failed probe or incorrect assembly.
I still think that current design is good enough (for this class of printer). If assembled and used correctly, it works incredibly well.
There should only be some failsafe mechanism to bail out from most frequent crash scenarios. For example, I use this "Z axis stopper": http://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/-f0/autokalibrace-nekdy-projde-nekdy-ne-t1417.html#p10808 It doesn't allow the nozzle to go too low. If the probe fails triggering, the result is only gentle "touchdown" with no devastating traces.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
That would be excellent solution if all probes triggered at the same and well known height. But, obviously, they don't.
I'm not sure "how true" this is.
It's not a matter of it being true or not -- I'm sure all of them will vary slightly. So it's probably a true statement.
The question is how much variance is there, really?
Is the variance small enough to make a standard mount jig work well enough? You build the jig with some amount of safety factor in it so it should work over the variance displayed, if it's even necessary in the first place. Might not be.
FWIW, Printrbot includes a spacer, similar to ben.b's, which you use to set the initial probe location. I'm sure all these probes vary slightly, but not enough to invalidate the basic, initial procedure. Which is essentially to use a jig/spacer.
When I went to replace the probe on my Printrbot, I had an "oh crap" moment because I thought I had lost the spacer.
If you stare at it long enough, though, you realize the jig and mount might as well be the same thing.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
I'm sure all these probes vary slightly, but not enough to invalidate the basic, initial procedure. Which is essentially to use a jig/spacer.
It is all right if you take it actually as helper for initial setup procedure. I'm fully OK with that.
But above mentioned probe cap with fixed length of probe screwed in efectively denies any further adjustments, not to mention other possible issues causing "Hotend crashed into PEI", which is this thread title.
But anyway, I'm not against anyone to try it out. I just wanted to express my opinion. 🙂
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
You're right about it limiting adjustment, but I'll mention it to Josef and maybe his Genius™ level brain will think of something better! 😆
Getting the probe just right seems to be something that quite a few people are either struggling with or are fed up with, especially when first built, so maybe the idea along the lines of Ben's would be better... It could go over the probe to touch the holder like his then extend over so the nozzle sits on it? After all it's the nozzle that it needs to be inline with (well 1mm up from) and it can be checked when the hotend is cold.
The part in green is 1mm lower then the part the probe sits on:
As others have said it will all depend on if the probes are consistent enough to be set this way...
To be honest though I'm wondering whether badly set probes are really causing that much of a problem for Prusa Research to go to the bother of designing and including a new part. A lot of the gouges I've seen reported here are no where near the probe points on the heatbed so the probe doesn't come into play...
Again I say that this problem is more complicated than people think and very hard to track down to a single cause... That's why I'd like people to start posting where their nozzle hits the bed, what they had the printer doing when it hit (printing, calibrating, self test, etc.), who assembled it (user or pre-built) and if they're willing to admit to having made a mistake themselves then what that was...
This info would help a lot.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
@3Delight Since being promoted to a PRO, you are like Peter pjr, and feel the need to comment on many posts. Already your output has gone up. you have a way to go with Peter, pjr he has over 2000 posts. You may feel the need like Peter (pjr) to support Josef Prusa.
My point is the so called Pro's like you are drawn in and get some perks I am sure, like inside information and other stuff. Prusa Research with the so called PRO's is doing itself a diservice. Some advice in the past from a so called Pro would wreck a MK2 Prusa 3D printer.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
The last thing I would want to be here, is promoted to a PRO. It ruins genuine criticism and honest comments. Don't get me wrong the MK2 Prusa I3 3D printer is one of the best, if not the best 3D printers out there. In my opinion. But it does have issues! Mostly involved with the Kit build.
I have experience of previous 3D printer kit builds.... A Kossel Mini ( < brilliant direct support from Think3DPrint3D) and a HobbyKing Fabrikator Large.( < little or no support), I learnt a lot and understood 3D printing and printers by then. My Fabrikator Large is now dialled in and gives me great prints. I have 6 different 3D printers. Three commercial. A Fabrikator Mini, an Ultimaker 2+ and a hacked by me DaVinci 1.0A
They are all dialled in and tweaked by me. I am not a PRO just an amateur that has experience across many different 3D printers. Apart from one printer I use a paid for slicing program that gives me brilliant prints and control of many parameters. I spread my prints across my different 3D printer models, often running 4 at a time. To speed up a printing project.
We are in a September heat wave where I live in England, so my 3D printing workshop has been idle recently. 31 Deg C and Humidity over 98% Outside. Over 25 deg C indoors with 70% humidity. Not good for filament. I do not have air conditioning.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Ive also seen an increase in criticism again the "PRO'S" which some of it is pretty rude. This is not a free for all. 3Delight and Peter are still humans! Although Prusa made a mistake allowing someone to be a mod with no actual name! Thats a tad unprofessional in my eyes 🙄
Have a problem with Prusa not the mods 😉 The mods are just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I have a problem with Prusa support but I wouldn't attack the mods personally although I do rant on a bit.
Another asked what they owe Prusa. Whats that to do with you, much like asking someones annual pay. 😕
I feel 3delight puts less comments then before because he/she now represents Prusa rather then just their personal feeling about a situation.
In regards to the bed being damaged in unusual places, you need to look at it from a different angle. Although its not where the cut off points should be the nozzle still touches or just about hovers on the bed and when the printer moves the bed this is where the gauges are made. So it started where the pinda sensors are and it was dragged across the bed. If a Y or X axis are slightly off then again it will hit the bed in a different place then normal.
I accept it might be a little more complicated then a 3d printed part BUT that 3d printed part is a dam "sight" better then "By Eye" which the manual wants you to do. People perceptions of height and level differ from human to human. If you are going to put that sort of adjustment on something it needs to be less dangerous.
Ill try another car thing. We all know what a car is I hope. The pinda is "kinda" like a choke (if anyone remembers them here) on a car but if you dont set the choke correctly the engine will blow up! If you dont set the pinda correctly the bed with get damaged. Sort of the same thing except you wont damage your car in real life if the choke is slightly off! That using "By Eye" is more complicated then just using a 3d printed part. It will also rule out most of the "users" bad assembly suggestions that are reith on the forums 😆
It was just an idea too, It would rule out at least one problem.
It would be nice to see Josef here a few times a week or month just putting it down for us. We are here on the forum for some support. We too all support (I would hope) Josef so lets hear a bit of gossip before mr anybody on twitter or facebook. WE WANT JOSEF, WE WANT JOSEF. HA HA No seriously it would be nice to have some Prusa support on their "official" support forum.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
My point is the so called Pro's like you are drawn in and get some perks I am sure
Honestly, these whines are getting a bit boring. "Pro" sticker is just a sticker. You can find out how they deserved it, just read this forum.
In general, I absolutely don't care about users' stickers. I only care about what they say.
If you don't agree with what they say, use proper arguments and show them that they are wrong. It's that simple. 🙂
Sorry for offtopic.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
I'm not whining. Just making an honest viewpoint. If you don't like it, that is your problem.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
@ben.b you posted... "Another asked what they owe Prusa. Whats that to do with you, much like asking someones annual pay. :?" The PRO I mentioned posted in a reply that he feels he needs to support Josef Prusa. My question was why? What do they owe Prusa. Because Josef or his staff are not here on the forums very often. So my follow on question, do PRO's get perks? An honest question.
One PRO who strongly defended the issues I had with the MK1 then went onto as detailed below....
The same PRO had inside information of the up and coming launch of the MK2 before it happend, and intimated that up and comiing changes to the Prusa I3 Mk1 soon, that would address my problems after I posted about the issues I had with my recently bought MK1. ie the MK2 launched two weeks later. A major kit rebuild and not a simple mod.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Us 'Pro's get no perks, no freebies and no insider information! A lot of what we seem to know before hand comes from looking around the web and piecing the info together. For example Josef has posted 'teases' on Facebook and twitter about an upcoming multi-material/multi-colour upgrade.
We are just people who have gone out of our way to try to help people on these Forums since they were founded and were 'rewarded' with a Pro sticker and in some cases made into moderators. That is the only 'reward' we have ever got.
I don't use my real name on here as I have some mental health issues that make me a bit paranoid about privacy (Josef and his team know who I am). The reason I haven't posted so much is I suffer from depression and am currently going through a 'down' phase so rather than post things that might sound overly negative I am only posting when I feel I can keep the answer light... When I am in an 'Up' phase I really enjoy helping others and post wherever I feel I can either directly or just by being supportive.
In my case I do not feel I 'owe' Josef or Prusa, but I do feel a sense of community friendship with him (even though I've never met him) for both the support he and his company have provided me when I've had printer problems, their understanding of my unusual behavoir due to the above mentioned issues, and I respect him as a human being...
As some background, when I helped with building our printer I get very depressed over things that went wrong (must of which were because I didn't understand what I was doing) and came on here and ranted, as well as sending some nasty emails. Josef and his team put up with it and kept their replies professional and friendly! When I had calmed down and entered an 'up' phase I apologised and explained the situation to them and they have been nothing but understanding and helpful. I know I can be negative at times and if anyone feels I have been on here when it's not warranted then they are free to tell me so, it helps me out.
Please do not use these forums to cast aspersions about people (users, moderators or staff), sling names about them or make claims that are not supported by fact, it is unwarranted and hurtful. These forums are mainly community based with Prusa Staff 'dropping in' as and when they can, they are very busy people. If you have a problem with someone then PM them about it directly, myself included.
Oh, and just so people now Josef and some of the team have been on a brief holiday so that is probably why they have not been on here...
If you too want to get 'inside' information then bookmark the following social media pages where Josef and others post:
https://twitter.com/josefprusa - Josef's own Twitter feed.
https://www.facebook.com/PrusaResearch/ - Prusa Reasearch's Official Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Prusai3users/ - A User ran Facebook group (open to all).
https://www.facebook.com/josefprusa - Josef's own Facebook page.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Joseph and others were on a brief holiday. There you go, inside information. 😉 3Delight, you are the new PRO, believe me you will get insider information, and some perks.
A PRO let slip in the past before they were announced by Prusa Research, significant upgrades that answered the issues/problems I had with the MK1 ie The MK2 Prusa I3 launch.
PRO's are special people.
3Delight the links your posted above are irrelevant. This forum is Prusa Research so called support, for kit built printers. Shame they are not here.
I do not follow facebook or Twitter, Security moles. Cough holes! And depression for me.
@3Delight I suffer from depressive episodes too. You are not alone. I lost my career due to mental health issues. Sorry if I upset you.. I will step back. A little. A lot of people here like us have mental health issues. Is this a place for us so called people with issues and maybe called nutters!
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
I use my real name and middle name in posts here. Let's get real and step back a little. I. Thoroughly believe the MK2 Genuine Prusa I3 Printer is the best 3D printer for the price. And gives me better prints than my Ultimaker 2+ Except with some materials.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Joseph and others were on a brief holiday. There you go, inside information. 😉 3Delight, you are the new PRO, believe me you will get insider information, and some perks.
That information came from Josef's twitter page and NOT insider info! 😆
A PRO let slip in the past before they were announced by Prusa Research, significant upgrades that answered the issues/problems I had with the MK1 ie The MK2 Prusa I3 launch.
Sorry I don't remember that incident?
PRO's are special people.
Yes, we are Josef's "Specialz Snowflakez" 😆 😆
3Delight the links your posted above are irrelevant. This forum is Prusa Research so called support, for kit built printers. Shame they are not here.
I was just indicating where I get the so called insider info from, sorry if I wasn't clear enough... AS for the levels of support for each model sold, I've PM'd Josef and asked him if he could make it clearer on the sales pages in the shop... These 'Support Forums' are mainly Community Driven with Prusa staff dropping in as and when they can, NOT full on 24/7 staff support forums.
I do not follow facebook or Twitter, Security moles. Cough holes! And depression for me.
Just because you don't read Facebook (you don't need an account for most any of the one's I listed apart from Josef's own page on Facebook) doesn't make it insider info!
@3Delight I suffer from depressive episodes too. You are not alone. I lost my career due to mental health issues. Sorry if I upset you.. I will step back. A little. A lot of people here like us have mental health issues. Is this a place for us so called people with issues and maybe called nutters!
Sorry to hear of your problems. No offence taken. Having mental health issues and being a nutter are two wholly seperate issues! 😆 I like to think I'm a bit of both! 😮 😀 😆
Hope all that made sense, not feeling well at the moment!
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Sorry I don't remember that incident?
I think Nigel may be referring to information I obtained from Josef's Twitter and/or Facebook account. And like Nigel, I do not have any social media account other than YouTube.
Thing is with Nigel, when he can't be bothered to find out, it has to be someone else's fault...
And of course, us "Pro's" are special. We spend our time trying to help, not whingeing about others. And to the best of my knowledge, none of us asked for any particular status or ranking.
I really do think this thread is done now.
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
I agree Peter so I am locking this Topic now, thank you all for your contributions...
We'll I'm trying to lock it! Must have the wrong bunch of keys on me today! 😆
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Password to lock it is 12345 😉 😆
Re: Hotend crashed into PEI and burnt a hole through it
Part of the kit calibration is to align the pinda probe with the power off. The mk3 instructions say to use a zip-tie on the bed to offset it from the print head. This is done by manually turning the lead screws.
I didn't have any issues except needing to dial in the Z calibration by -0.75mm. The probe uses magnetic inductance (if I read it correctly) so the hotbed could be faulty in that area. The rectangles on the bottom are the high-temperature magnets.
I've yet to get a print to complete but I think my issue is adhesion rather than Z calibration. I thought PLA and some alcohol was all that was needed for the PEI plate. I've had the print head drag the model off the bed several times now. Another issue may be an uneven table.
I know I'm off topic but I ran Z calibration and adjusted the probe for 6 hours last night without issue.