Einsy-Rambo on mk2?  

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

The MK2.5 upgrade doesn't include the Einsy Rambo or any 24v parts. You do get a 12v MK52 heated bed, and you get the new version PINDA probe, filament sensor, Bondtech gears, and a new cooling fan for the hotend. To be honest, the upgrade kit sounds less and less of a good deal to me the more I think about it. I can't see anything in there that will make my prints any better - all the upgrades seem to be for ease of use/idiot proofing. Even with the discount voucher (if they ever turn up), I'm not seeing $150 worth of upgrade here. I'd rather have just the MK52 bed and maybe the new PINDA and drive the cost of the upgrade right down.

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

I'm kind of tossing around the idea of trying the 2.5 upgrade kit and then adding the Einsy-Rambo and a 24v power supply. 24v to 12v converters are pretty easy to come by, and use a mosfet to send 12v to the bed and hotend.

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Einsy (like the 1.3a) runs at 5V and can be fed with up to 27V; the Mk52 is most likely dual voltage (like many other heated beds; Mk42 was the recent exception). The steppers are current (and therefore voltage) -limited.

Why would you want to switch to 24V and then swap the fans and extruder heater for 24V variants? I haven't checked the Einsy pinouts as yet; that may be where any issues may occur.

Peter

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

I did search about using 24v system to power 12v heaters, first thing I tried to see was the original marlin config.h file and i saw that pwm thingy. Then I tried to search if it is practical, in fact, I read that it wasn't practical at all. Saw Peter's post about 12v vs 24v system last year with someone else turned out to be negative arguments (my point of view).

Well, I saw Thomas Sanladerer's video about mk3 sensory overload video where he interviewed Joseph Prusa, he stated that even if the mk2 to mk3 upgrade were to be available, the only thing that will be reused is the motors and belts. So that also got me thinking, what if we don't need to upgrade the frame at all, just the electronics.

Of course the mk3 are quite eye catching, even for myself too, it's just that from the video, no more endstops means lesser wiring needed to the board, except pinda2. Things that would be quite useful I personally think is the power panic and skip detection. I had my very first layer shifts when I had my very first issues with filament blobs

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Yes, I also think mk2 to mk3 upgrade is easily possible with some technical and handy knowhow. Use the 2.5 upgrade and additional self made things. The aluminum extrusion is a minor problem, just a few holes to drill. Einsy and power supply could be available from different distributors in the near future or from Prusa.

The major question is : Are the extruder and fans are also 24V powered. My suggestion ist that the extruder could be 24V, but the fans are still 12V.

I will definitely upgrade my mk2 to mk2.5 and then self made to mk3. It's only a question of time.

Thomas

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Yes, I also think mk2 to mk3 upgrade is easily possible with some technical and handy knowhow. Use the 2.5 upgrade and additional self made things. The aluminum extrusion is a minor problem, just a few holes to drill. Einsy and power supply could be available from different distributors in the near future or from Prusa.

The major question is : Are the extruder and fans are also 24V powered. My suggestion ist that the extruder could be 24V, but the fans are still 12V.

I will definitely upgrade my mk2 to mk2.5 and then self made to mk3. It's only a question of time.

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

checking the Einsy schematics https://github.com/ultimachine/Einsy-Rambo/blob/1.0a/board/Project%20Outputs/Schematic%20Prints_Einsy%20Rambo_1.0a.PDF the voltage you provide to the PWR-IN will be used for the motors, heaters and fans.

Prusa gets a customized 40x40x10 24v Noctua fan and in black.

I hope Prusa will add some options to the MK2.5 upgrade kit:
- 24v instead of 12v Noctua 40x40x10 fan
- 24v 5050 blower fan with signal
- 24v heater cartridge https://e3d-online.com/heater-cartridge-24v-40w
- 24v PSU (same as MK3)
- Einsy board

BTW: the miniRAMBo could also use 24v power but i guess Prusa decided in the past to use stock E3d heater and fans.

Check also https://discuss.toms3d.org/youtube-f7/in-depth-look-at-the-einsy-from-prusa-s-mk3-tct201-t280.html

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Hi !

Correct me, if I'm wrong. I see the shematics the first time (thanks for the link 😉 ), but if you go through the shematics you will find VCC-FAN = VCC (over FB23). And VCC is generated from U3 (LM25011) with FB in over a voltage divider 1/2 (10k/10k, R23 & R24). This will result in a 5V power supply for the fans 😮

- 5V for the fans (but can be easily adapt to 12V)
- 12V for heatbed
- 12V for extruder (if x13 is the connector for the hotend)
- steppers are 24V

12V and 24V will be delivered from the power supply.

Fans are still not PWM driven 🙁 but uses tacho for corrrct function. This also can be modified.

Overall, we can easily change to EINSY by replacing the RAMBo with doing some minor modifications.I'm wondering that Prusa will not provide this as an full upgrade mk2 -> mk3.

Thomas

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Hi !

Correct me, if I'm wrong. I see the shematics the first time (tanks for the link 😉 ), but if you go through the shematics you will find VCC-FAN = VCC (over FB23). And VCC is generated from U3 (LM25011) with FB in over a voltage divider 1/2 (10k/10k, R23 & R24). This will result in a 5V power supply for the fans 😮

- 5V for the fans (but can be easily adapt to 12V)
- 12V for heatbed
- steppers are 24V

12V and 24V will be delivered from the power supply.

Fans are still not PWM driven 🙁 but uses tacho for corrrct function. This also can be modified.

Overall, we can easily change to EINSY by replacing the RAMBo with doing some minor modifications.I'm wondering that Prusa will not provide this as an full upgrade mk2 -> mk3.

Thomas

Hi,

i am not sure if these schematics are the final. And maybe you are right and the fans are now 5v and you get a 12v noctua fan for the miniRAMbo with the MK2.5 upgrade kit.

Hope the heated bed is 24v.

We will see.

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

No, bed is definitely 12V :

(if design is not changed in the next time, but I don't think so)

Thomas

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

No, bed is definitely 12V :

Unbenannt.JPG

(if design is not changed in the next time, but I don't think so)

Thomas

I think that +12V means more than 12V ...

http://reprap.org/wiki/MiniRambo

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Here the miniRAMbo power schematics showing +12V

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

You maybe right that Prusa uses the 12V supply for 24V 😮 There is no separate power input for 24V.

We will see 😉

Thomas

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Wow, some of us do hopes that we get most of the electronics for the mk2.5 upgrades including the einsy. But I don't know why Prusa wanted to include all the frames for the upgrades that "... in the end you just gonna buy a new printer anyway....", the prusa3d team should reconsider the mk2.5 upgrade package content kit on what items will be included instead of include the whole new mk3 frames.

I don't know how to read the schematics. but what if the prusa einsy rambo version do give 24v output instead? Surely that these schematics are from ultimachine and I guess that prusa didn't make their own board, but simply just collaborate with ultimachine. Seeing how they make their own pinda probe and the mk42/mk52 heatbed, it is common to see that prusa able to modify some of the components embedded in the einsy which based on the schematics will output 12v for the bed.

I really wish that the prusa team notice this thread and reconsider the kit 😉

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Again, both the RAMBo 1.3a and the Einsy Rambo will work with up to 28 V input. They feed (almost) the input voltage to the fans, motors and heaters and contain a buck regulator with 5V output for the electronics.

If you feed the 1.3a with 24V, then you will need to change the heaters and fans only. The only advantage of the Einsy is that it has Trinamic drivers (but still 1/16th stepping, interpolated and with stall detection) and different firmware to work with the Trinamic drivers and additional sensor(s).

But, the latest V3.1 firmware uses 7% more program memory than 3.0,.12 (up from 84% to 93%). All these extra features will require even more program memory and with only 7% remaining, someone somewhere will have to work some magic.

Peter

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Fans are 5V-powered if Prusa uses this EINSY version :

VCC-FAN = VCC = 5V

Or you modify the supply for the fans.

Anyway, a fan can be replaced very easy and another heat cartidge costs not the world.

Thomas

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Again, both the RAMBo 1.3a and the Einsy Rambo will work with up to 28 V input. They feed (almost) the input voltage to the fans, motors and heaters and contain a buck regulator with 5V output for the electronics.

If you feed the 1.3a with 24V, then you will need to change the heaters and fans only. The only advantage of the Einsy is that it has Trinamic drivers (but still 1/16th stepping, interpolated and with stall detection) and different firmware to work with the Trinamic drivers and additional sensor(s).

But, the latest V3.1 firmware uses 7% more program memory than 3.0,.12 (up from 84% to 93%). All these extra features will require even more program memory and with only 7% remaining, someone somewhere will have to work some magic.

Peter

I guess most of them are on the sdcard's feature

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Fans are 5V-powered if Prusa uses this EINSY version :

Thomas

There are a variety of schematics; the one I looked at from October 2016 shows the fans being driven from the input rail.

Peter

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Ahh, jet ...

I thought of such a mess !

We have still to wait until the first mk3 is shipped

Thomas

Re: Einsy-Rambo on mk2?

Noctua confirmed they were contracted to provide the NF-A4x10 12V for the MK3.

this Prusa printer is actually coming with a standard NF-A4x10 12V fan - I've just checked on that.
However, we're looking into that 24V 40mm fan design process, however, please note that this will take some more time since it's basically a totally new fan motor design that is necessary here.