RE: Xl extruder stops
I have two tool heads.
T1 is the tool that I have issues with and I just checked the board and it does not have the AVIAC nomenclature on it.
T2 works, and it also does not have the AVIAC...
T1 came from the first batch of XL printers and T2 came from an upgrade kit almost a year later. Did you get new boards from Prusa with the AVIAC on it? If so, have you been using it and have you had any issues with it?
If it resolves the issues I'll buy the board right now.
RE: Xl extruder stops
The microcontroller on the latest board is slightly different than the original one.
T1 -
STM32G070
RBT6
GQ20W
Same exact mc that is shown in this listing.
T2 -
STM32G070
RBT6
GQ244
RE: Xl extruder stops
Brian, that sounds then like the problem I have mentioned higher up in this thread.
For me, I was able to resolve this with PC-CF printed extruder parts.
But I am glad that it worked out!
After the day spent troubleshooting I was able to have success. I had 2 problems, one definitely self induced and the other is questionable.
1st was loss of preload on the extruder idler. With the whole bed at 100C vs. Only about half the bed (as I've printed in the past), allowed the temperature to get above 50C in the enclosure and likely even hotter at the extruder because it spent about 1.5 hours printing the first layer right next to the 100°C bed. This I believe softened the extruder idler parts causing it to lose preload. These parts probably should have been pccf, but my machine must have been built during the transition stage between PETG and PCCF as some of my parts are PCCF and some not. I also believe that they changed the design some because even looking at my other print heads they have marginal preload.
So my temporary solution was to shim the idler with a piece of plastic. Long term I'll be printing these from PCCF as soon as it gets back in stock. I'll also not be using the entire bed until the parts are replaced.
Notice the gap difference between the PCCF idler arm (1st pic) and the XL parts (2nd pic). The 3rd pic is my temporary solution.
@unicorn3d Did you use a hardened nozzle for the PCCF or did you just sacrifice a brass nozzle?bi have quite a few new brass nozzles so I might just sacrifice one, but I am not sure how long a brass nozzle would last. I want to make sure I can print everything.
The 2nd issue was 100% my fault as I realized that on the .2mm speed setting solid infill prints at 200mm/s! That speed might work for Prusament ASA, but Polymaker ASA is only rated at 50mm/sec max. I ended up lowering the volumetric flow so that the max speed was around 80 mm/s and raised the temp to 270. This appears to be working well.
RE: Xl extruder stops
Thanks for asking! Actually... I was lucky and got most of the printed parts. Later on I tried several times to buy pccf filament, but it was sold out. So I bought the remaining missing pieces (carriage clamps) myself. Once pccf becomes available again I will however buy it and try a few things.
RE:
Figured I would add my issues/testing/t-shooting into the mix as I sit and wait for the service center to email me an update on my repair status. Before sending it in to them they replaced one extruder motor, one dwarf board, one nextruder cable and both puppy boards.
Story/test log that I sent Prusa is pasted below:
I have been chasing an issue with my 4th & 5th toolhead for months. it will print the first few layer or so, then stop extruding filament. I can open the idler and see that the extruder gears aren't turning at all. If I reset the printer then the gears start turning again and it extrudes filament without any type of intervention. I can also do the 'reset fix' without opening the idler at all...so that leads me to believe it's not an issue with clogging, filament or nozzle. I have been sent several parts from you guys to replace - extruder motor, dwarf board, extruder wiring & both puppy boards. I have swapped in all parts that were sent. After the puppy boards were installed I updated to the newest fw. I was then able to print a benchy without issue. As soon as I tried a 'normal' print the issue came back.
I mostly print with ToolHead #5 & I have my printer in an enclosure. I have swapped all idler parts & all fan shrouds to PC-CF. No matter what I have tried I still have issues with printing any detailed/long prints on both tool heads 4 & 5. I have been doing a bunch of test prints to try to isolate the problem. I was doing a lot of printing of ASA to test as that's where I first noticed this issue. After a bunch of failed test prints with ASA on ToolHead #5 I ended up with a warped Extruder cover. I printed a new one in PETG and had the same result after only one failed test print. So then I printed a new one in PC-CF and although I had to do some trimming of the print to get the white ring to fit it did. I was then able to attempt a test print without the extruder case/cover warping. I also attempted to print with other toolheads and the results are below:
Test File Names:
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - ASA - EXT1 - .4mm_ASA_8h34m_109g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - ASA - EXT5 - .4mm_ASA_8h34m_109g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT1 - .4mm_PETG_9h8m_129g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT2 - .4mm_PETG_9h8m_129g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT3 - .4mm_PETG_8h37m_134g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT4 - .4mm_PETG_8h37m_134g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT5 - .4mm_PETG_8h37m_134g.bgcode
All Test Prints are Dummy 13 Frame parts sized to 150% - There are parts for TWO complete frames.
**While printing with PETG the printer is not enclosed**
ToolHead 1 - ASA - Successful
ToolHead 2 - PETG - Successful
ToolHead 3 - PETG - Successful
Toolhead 4 - PETG - Fail
ToolHead 5 (PC-CF Extruder Case) - ASA - Fail
I swapped toolheads 1/4 and 2/5. After the swap I re-ran the dock & offset calibration tests for all 5 toolheads.
**While printing with PETG the printer is not enclosed**
ToolHead 1 (Formerly toolhead 4) - PETG - Successful
ToolHead 2 (PC-CF Extruder Case) (Formerly toolhead 5) - PETG - Successful
ToolHead 4 (Formerly toolhead 1) - PETG - Fail
ToolHead 5 (Formerly toolhead 2) - PETG - Fail
NOTE: While running all test prints with PETG the printer is not enclosed, but it is enclosed while printing with ASA.
The issue seems to be clearly software related as most hardware involved has been eliminated by my testing...I'm hopeful for a resolution via FW, but as this problem doesn't seem to effect everyone I dunno.
RE: Xl extruder stops
PCCF not available?
https://extrudr.com/de/shop-eu/products/durapro-pc-pbt-cf/?variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6Mzg2MA%3D%3D
RE: Xl extruder stops
About the PCCF for the thermosensible parts. I used ASA, which is cheaper and easier to print than PCCF (I guess, I did not dare to try PCCF because in my enclosure I can hold a maximum of 38° before one of the heatbed elements failes (it was stupid of Prusa to put any electronic elements except sensors inside the printer (that's the one reason why I would not buy this printer again))). But ASA works fine in my Printer. After weeks using the ASA parts there is no loss of tension in the tensioner. The original parts did not have any tension anymore when I changed them.
RE: Xl extruder stops
Update ;
My XL Extruder doesn't spin again even print fan switched off.
I reported this issue to Prusa customer support.
I can't use this machine from Oct 18.
They always said 'Thank you for your patience'.
But my patience is running out.
RE: Xl extruder stops
PCCF?
Thank you for the links.
I looked at this filament as well as Priline PCCF, but after doing research people seemed to have difficulty printing with it. While I don't doubt I could develop settings based on others experiences, I don't have time to do that right now. My printers are busy and can't take a few days to develop good parts.
Prusament PCCF however has a profile and from what I've read it prints beautifully without issue. Since my shimming the idler door is working I'm just going to continue that way and limit the enclosure temperature until the Prusament is available. I contacted support and they claim it'll be ready soon.
RE: Xl extruder stops
About the PCCF for the thermosensible parts. I used ASA, which is cheaper and easier to print than PCCF (I guess, I did not dare to try PCCF because in my enclosure I can hold a maximum of 38° before one of the heatbed elements failes (it was stupid of Prusa to put any electronic elements except sensors inside the printer (that's the one reason why I would not buy this printer again))). But ASA works fine in my Printer. After weeks using the ASA parts there is no loss of tension in the tensioner. The original parts did not have any tension anymore when I changed them.
I had considered this as well, but when I examine the mechanical properties of ASA vs. PCCF the PCCF has a much higher temperature resistance. Since I use these machines for a business I need a fix that I don't have to mess with again.
How long have you been using the ASA parts?
RE: Xl extruder stops
I looked at this filament as well as Priline PCCF, but after doing research people seemed to have difficulty printing with it. While I don't doubt I could develop settings based on others experiences, I don't have time to do that right now. My printers are busy and can't take a few days to develop good parts.
Prusament PCCF however has a profile and from what I've read it prints beautifully without issue. Since my shimming the idler door is working I'm just going to continue that way and limit the enclosure temperature until the Prusament is available. I contacted support and they claim it'll be ready soon.
I used some Priline PCCF (dried of course) with the Prusament profile and it worked fine
For those of you who encounter the extruder stopping issue, I'm curious to know:
- Do you have an enclosure? If so, do you have a fan hooked up like the official enclosure?
- Do you print with higher temperature materials? ABS/ASA? Nylon? PC?
- Do your tool head LEDs flicker?
- How full is your USB drive?
- Have you been encountering the USB disconnect issue?
- Firmware version?
- Is it confined to specific tool head(s)? If so, does it get worse over time on that tool head?
- Have you tried swapping tool heads? If so, did it follow the dock or tool head?
- Have you tried factory resetting?
For me: yes enclosure with fan, but I print PETG with the doors off and it still happens. Yes, ASA, nylon, PC. All 5 flicker. I kept the USB drive empty for a while, but since 6.2 alpha I've been letting it fill up again. Yes I've encountered the USB disconnect issue, but extremely rarely since 6.2 alpha 2, only once when the USB drive was getting more full. Started on T1, eventually spread to T3, then eventually T2, seems to be whichever I use most. It either hasn't spread to the one I use for support interface (T5), or that tool is used for such a short time that it isn't very noticeable if it happens then is reset by docking. It does seem to get worse over time if I keep using the same tool. Early on, I swapped T1 and T3, and the issue stayed with dock 1. I have not factory reset.
I wonder if it's something silly like log files building up for specific tools and causing the issue.
RE: Xl extruder stops
I looked at this filament as well as Priline PCCF, but after doing research people seemed to have difficulty printing with it. While I don't doubt I could develop settings based on others experiences, I don't have time to do that right now. My printers are busy and can't take a few days to develop good parts.
Prusament PCCF however has a profile and from what I've read it prints beautifully without issue. Since my shimming the idler door is working I'm just going to continue that way and limit the enclosure temperature until the Prusament is available. I contacted support and they claim it'll be ready soon.
I used some Priline PCCF (dried of course) with the Prusament profile and it worked fine
For those of you who encounter the extruder stopping issue, I'm curious to know:
- Do you have an enclosure? If so, do you have a fan hooked up like the official enclosure?
- Do you print with higher temperature materials? ABS/ASA? Nylon? PC?
- Do your tool head LEDs flicker?
- How full is your USB drive?
- Have you been encountering the USB disconnect issue?
- Firmware version?
- Is it confined to specific tool head(s)? If so, does it get worse over time on that tool head?
- Have you tried swapping tool heads? If so, did it follow the dock or tool head?
- Have you tried factory resetting?
For me: yes enclosure with fan, but I print PETG with the doors off and it still happens. Yes, ASA, nylon, PC. All 5 flicker. I kept the USB drive empty for a while, but since 6.2 alpha I've been letting it fill up again. Yes I've encountered the USB disconnect issue, but extremely rarely since 6.2 alpha 2, only once when the USB drive was getting more full. Started on T1, eventually spread to T3, then eventually T2, seems to be whichever I use most. It either hasn't spread to the one I use for support interface (T5), or that tool is used for such a short time that it isn't very noticeable if it happens then is reset by docking. It does seem to get worse over time if I keep using the same tool. Early on, I swapped T1 and T3, and the issue stayed with dock 1. I have not factory reset.
I wonder if it's something silly like log files building up for specific tools and causing the issue.
Brian,
Great idea to document this issue.
For me:
- Yes custom enclosure, no fan, but leave door open. Haven’t had the internal temp get over 39.
- I print with PCCF, PLA, TPU ABS, ASA. Can’t say for sure, but I think I’ve only had this issue with higher temp filaments.
- All of my tool head leds flicker.
- USB Drive not too full. I clean it up frequently.
- I have had usb disconnect issues.
- last released firmware, 613 I believe.
- I have the issue on 3 tool heads. 1, 2, and 5
- I have swapped tool heads and the issue follows the tool head.
- Haven’t tried factory reset
Carmine
RE: Xl extruder stops
I've been using ASA parts for several weeks now with no change in stability. But that didn't solve my extruder stops issue. To answer malikdrako's questions: enclosure yes, with a powerful temperature controlled fan (I usually keep it between 36-38°), exhaust is at the highest point, extruder 4 is the only problematic extruder so far (1/5) so I only use it for support (this works because it goes to park position every layer), I print mostly ASA and PETG HT with bed temps up to 110°, nozzle temps ~270, all tools flicker a bit but the broken tool 4 flickers slowly and clearly when it reaches temperature, USB still has plenty of room, I had the disconnection issue a few times with a previous firmware, now I'm using 6.1.3, no tool head changing (there's no use there), no factory reset and I won't do it unless strongly recommended.
RE:
I looked at this filament as well as Priline PCCF, but after doing research people seemed to have difficulty printing with it. While I don't doubt I could develop settings based on others experiences, I don't have time to do that right now. My printers are busy and can't take a few days to develop good parts.
Prusament PCCF however has a profile and from what I've read it prints beautifully without issue. Since my shimming the idler door is working I'm just going to continue that way and limit the enclosure temperature until the Prusament is available. I contacted support and they claim it'll be ready soon.
I used some Priline PCCF (dried of course) with the Prusament profile and it worked fine
For those of you who encounter the extruder stopping issue, I'm curious to know:
- Do you have an enclosure? If so, do you have a fan hooked up like the official enclosure?
- Do you print with higher temperature materials? ABS/ASA? Nylon? PC?
- Do your tool head LEDs flicker?
- How full is your USB drive?
- Have you been encountering the USB disconnect issue?
- Firmware version?
- Is it confined to specific tool head(s)? If so, does it get worse over time on that tool head?
- Have you tried swapping tool heads? If so, did it follow the dock or tool head?
- Have you tried factory resetting?
For me: yes enclosure with fan, but I print PETG with the doors off and it still happens. Yes, ASA, nylon, PC. All 5 flicker. I kept the USB drive empty for a while, but since 6.2 alpha I've been letting it fill up again. Yes I've encountered the USB disconnect issue, but extremely rarely since 6.2 alpha 2, only once when the USB drive was getting more full. Started on T1, eventually spread to T3, then eventually T2, seems to be whichever I use most. It either hasn't spread to the one I use for support interface (T5), or that tool is used for such a short time that it isn't very noticeable if it happens then is reset by docking. It does seem to get worse over time if I keep using the same tool. Early on, I swapped T1 and T3, and the issue stayed with dock 1. I have not factory reset.
I wonder if it's something silly like log files building up for specific tools and causing the issue.
That's good to hear on the Priline PCCF, If Prusament doesn't come in this week I may order some.
I should also clarify that my extruder never stopped like some others have had happen, it just was filament jams due to the weak idler door and trying to print too fast. Every time this happened I had crumbles of ASA all over the place because the extruder kept turning but the filament didn't move, So when I would unload the filament you could see where the extruder ground down the filament in 1 spot. I also had some difficulty getting ASA reloaded into the nozzle after cleaning because the filament inside the nozzle was at 260 for hours and didn't move. So I often had to force the filament with my hand while purging to clear the burnt up ASA in the nozzle. I had tried a cold pull previously, but it stayed partially blocked until I forced the filament thru manually.
To answer your questions:
- I have a Sumo Enclosure, and I use the Prusa Advanced filtration system. It only circulates the air in the enclosure to filter it. It also makes the enclosure temperature quite uniform as it's constantly mixing the air. The back of the Sumo Enclosure is open and the area below the extruders is still open so it's not completely sealed.
- I print about 90% PETG with some occasional PLA and every once in awhile ASA. I've been running pretty regular for about a year without any issues. I think what triggered the issue was that I had never printed a group of ASA parts that filled the entire bed. I always in the past only used a portion of the heatbed. Having the entire heatbed on made the enclosure temperature get to about 50° C and that's when I think the idler got soft and lost preload. Combine that with the 200mm/s solid infill and the problems began. Shimming the idler and only printing 1 part at a time has kept me running because the enclosure only gets to about 40.
- Some flicker and some don't. I contacted support about it and they said basically there was no fix. It was not a big deal to me because I have them turned off most of the time. I've used them more in the past few days than I have in the past year. Normally I have them off because it's a waste of energy and the room my printers are in has the lights out anyways.
- I keep my USB tidy, so it's not very full at all. I only keep active jobs on it because with all of the updates all the time I find that I'm often reslicing the files when I come back to them anyways.
- I have never had the USB disconnect issue.
- Firmware 6.1.3
- Since mine is a idler arm problem it's not really toohead specific. Only tool 2 at the moment has lost all preload because that was the one that I was using when the enclosure got hot. The other toolheads being at the back and the printer being open around them kept them from being damaged. That being said they still don't have much preload compared to my MK4S. I suspect they changed the design some of the idler arm to give more preload. I can't say I remember how much they had when it was new because I have almost never needed to open the door as it's not normally required for regular use.
- I have not swapped heads due to the issue just being the idler door, and not stopping extruding as I clarified above.
- I have not ever factory reset the machine.
Great questions though. I hope when I print new idler doors that my issue will be solved. I mentioned earlier that some items are PCCF on my printer and some not. For example my print cooling fan duct is PCCF and my xy carrige components are PCCF. I plan to print the Idler doors, latch, and the nextruder cover. None of the other parts I think really need it. They are not structural and will not affect the print. For example the dwarf board covers are PETG and I see no real benefit from them being PCCF. I guess we'll see how much time I have.
RE: Xl extruder stops
Figured I would add my issues/testing/t-shooting into the mix as I sit and wait for the service center to email me an update on my repair status. Before sending it in to them they replaced one extruder motor, one dwarf board, one nextruder cable and both puppy boards.
Story/test log that I sent Prusa is pasted below:
I have been chasing an issue with my 4th & 5th toolhead for months. it will print the first few layer or so, then stop extruding filament. I can open the idler and see that the extruder gears aren't turning at all. If I reset the printer then the gears start turning again and it extrudes filament without any type of intervention. I can also do the 'reset fix' without opening the idler at all...so that leads me to believe it's not an issue with clogging, filament or nozzle. I have been sent several parts from you guys to replace - extruder motor, dwarf board, extruder wiring & both puppy boards. I have swapped in all parts that were sent. After the puppy boards were installed I updated to the newest fw. I was then able to print a benchy without issue. As soon as I tried a 'normal' print the issue came back.
I mostly print with ToolHead #5 & I have my printer in an enclosure. I have swapped all idler parts & all fan shrouds to PC-CF. No matter what I have tried I still have issues with printing any detailed/long prints on both tool heads 4 & 5. I have been doing a bunch of test prints to try to isolate the problem. I was doing a lot of printing of ASA to test as that's where I first noticed this issue. After a bunch of failed test prints with ASA on ToolHead #5 I ended up with a warped Extruder cover. I printed a new one in PETG and had the same result after only one failed test print. So then I printed a new one in PC-CF and although I had to do some trimming of the print to get the white ring to fit it did. I was then able to attempt a test print without the extruder case/cover warping. I also attempted to print with other toolheads and the results are below:
Test File Names:
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - ASA - EXT1 - .4mm_ASA_8h34m_109g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - ASA - EXT5 - .4mm_ASA_8h34m_109g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT1 - .4mm_PETG_9h8m_129g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT2 - .4mm_PETG_9h8m_129g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT3 - .4mm_PETG_8h37m_134g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT4 - .4mm_PETG_8h37m_134g.bgcode
/XL Test Prints/11-16_Bigger Dummy 13 - Frame - PETG - EXT5 - .4mm_PETG_8h37m_134g.bgcode
All Test Prints are Dummy 13 Frame parts sized to 150% - There are parts for TWO complete frames.
**While printing with PETG the printer is not enclosed**
ToolHead 1 - ASA - Successful
ToolHead 2 - PETG - Successful
ToolHead 3 - PETG - Successful
Toolhead 4 - PETG - Fail
ToolHead 5 (PC-CF Extruder Case) - ASA - Fail
I swapped toolheads 1/4 and 2/5. After the swap I re-ran the dock & offset calibration tests for all 5 toolheads.
**While printing with PETG the printer is not enclosed**
ToolHead 1 (Formerly toolhead 4) - PETG - Successful
ToolHead 2 (PC-CF Extruder Case) (Formerly toolhead 5) - PETG - Successful
ToolHead 4 (Formerly toolhead 1) - PETG - Fail
ToolHead 5 (Formerly toolhead 2) - PETG - Fail
NOTE: While running all test prints with PETG the printer is not enclosed, but it is enclosed while printing with ASA.
The issue seems to be clearly software related as most hardware involved has been eliminated by my testing...I'm hopeful for a resolution via FW, but as this problem doesn't seem to effect everyone I dunno.
Gor some good news for some of you! Especially me lol...
Looks like all my testing paid off. The issue is seems to be clearly software related. Prusa had my printer for a week and are deciding to just send me a new one! The found no issues with assembly or installed parts and will be shipping me a new fully assembled unit shortly! I don't know how hopeful I am in a firmware update being available shortly as they would've either installed it on my unit or most likely made me wait. At least that's my train of thought considering how long they usually take to repair units.
RE: Xl extruder stops
Another question to add to my list: Do you use a brass (or other conductive) brush to clean the outside of your nozzle?
I wonder if the bristles could be hitting the area with exposed LEDs on the cheese board and causing shorts or other problems
RE: Xl extruder stops
Another question to add to my list: Do you use a brass (or other conductive) brush to clean the outside of your nozzle?
I wonder if the bristles could be hitting the area with exposed LEDs on the cheese board and causing shorts or other problems
I do occasionally use a brass brush, but I'm confident I've not got the leds.
My go to most of the time is just a microfiber cloth when the nozzle is at 170.
RE: Xl extruder stops
At our company, we have 7 XL printers, 2 of which have an issue where they stop printing after a while. After two months of email communication, we finally decided to send them one of the printers. For now, they’ve told me they’ll get back to us. It’s surprising that a company claiming to sell thousands of machines could have such an issue—it will cost them dearly. For now, we’ve decided not to purchase any more, and it’s a shame that a company would allow itself to lose customers over an issue that shouldn’t exist with the thousands of machines they claim to sell.
RE: Xl extruder stops
At our company, we have 7 XL printers, 2 of which have an issue where they stop printing after a while. After two months of email communication, we finally decided to send them one of the printers. For now, they’ve told me they’ll get back to us. It’s surprising that a company claiming to sell thousands of machines could have such an issue—it will cost them dearly. For now, we’ve decided not to purchase any more, and it’s a shame that a company would allow itself to lose customers over an issue that shouldn’t exist with the thousands of machines they claim to sell.
Sadly we have one and it's coming up on 6 months looking for a solution. Now warranty parts are hung up in customs getting to Central America. While that's not Prusa's fault we've not been happy with the customer support for this model at all. We may have another purchase coming up but are having second thoughts on the company now.