Prusa Delays  

RE: Prusa Delays

Just to nit pick - we know Bambu has shipped "thousands", because they've shipped most of their KS backers (at least, the July and August ones), which is well over 2000 units.
I'm still blown away that Prusa is having PSU issues. That's a component that my company orders in... massive quantity, and the supplies for those have been on even keel for several months now. Not sure what PSU type and spec Prusa is wanting to use though... if it's something really out of the ordinary, that's unfortunate for a number of reasons.

RE:

I agree with some of you that there is something more going on than just chain supply problems.

Prusa keeps delivering on a regular schedule Minis, MK3S+ and SL1s. Therefore, they haven’t problems sourcing PSUs and electronic components for these printers. Unless they changed the design, the PSU for the XL seemed similar to a MK3S+, only difference being that each printer uses several units.  Is that difficult to get enough PSUs in order to deliver, for instance, 1000-2000 XLs  per month ?.

We know well that Prusa keeps an active profile on the net. Look at the last Blog entries .. lots of news about trifling matters and nothing at all about the XL. It’s hard to understand the ‘curtain of silence’ imposed by Prusa on what’s supposed to be their groundbreaking product. Don’t they realize that this policy is hurting the image of the company ?..

RE: Prusa Delays

I kind of agree with   Artur5. I know there are supply chain problems. That why usually in my comments i criticize their lack of communication and not their delivery delays. But there is a difference between limited supply thus prolonged shipping schedules to ZERO products developed and delivered. OK you have a problem with supply of PSUs. But not even for 1000 units? I mean if i was a supplier and there this company that gives me hundreds of thousands of orders and will come in the future with a multiple of that, i would like to give them some priority. Even some indication that they can still count on me. What supplier would not send Prusa any PSU for the past year. If there something else the problem then is prusa responsibility to communicate it with their customers.

RE: Prusa Delays

I am not really defending Prusa here but there is a case for not sourcing tiny shipments of some parts. Creating a sourcing list that does not rely on a single external company might be prudent but not to make tiny orders of non-verified quality, or building a ton of Frankenstein with all sorts of small order parts. This can turn into a service nightmare later on. 

That said like others have theorized, Prusa seems simply not ready yet to release a final version due to development reasons. That they are not more openly discussing it is their business decision I am not necessarily agreeing with but there are rational reasons for that too. 

Prusa is also hardly a big fish on the larger markets. I doubt they have too much weight to throw around, even when comparing to some Chinese 3D printer manufacturers and certainly not with the XL which will be a niche product compared to lets say an Ender 3. Companies like Bambulab which are much closer to the component producers and plan for large numbers right from the start will have an easier time to secure supply. 

RE: Prusa Delays

Prusa is not a negligible customer either. I mean its a well known brand with a big and somewhat faithful customer base that  (according to their yearly blogs) its rapidly expanding. What i tried to pass on with my last sentence is that the lack of communication and their constant blame for the delays on the supply chain problems, makes a bad combination. Is it actually the supply of components the only problem? You cant even prepare a small fraction of the orders? That sounds strange. I wouldn't mind saying something in the lines of that they had to redesign or improve some parts because they didnt perform as well as they hoped. Similar to the nexttruder issue. I would respect them even more. If you don't inform your customers,  then they are free to derive their own conclusions. And riding the PSU train for 6 months now is getting old. Do they have other problems with other suppliers and components? I dont know. They never told us.

RE: Prusa Delays

My impression is that no, supply is not the only issue but also no, it is not a good idea to invest a lot of energy into a bespoke tiny number process just to launch some units earlier. That is especially the case because it appears that other issues remain which have to be resolved first too, which are not solved by small patch sourcing. 

I am not that involved as I am just an interested observer, fascinated by the technology but not intending to buy that monstrous XL myself. Maybe if they came up with a tool changer in the Mk3s ...

In the end, I can't remember if Prusa has been as scarce with statements during the Mini development but I do know that Prusa has a track record of launch delays followed then by delivery delays. I wouldn't have expected anything less with such a complex project as the XL where they are changing so much all at once. 

RE: Prusa Delays

The PSU for the XL is a heck of a lot more complex than the simple little thing for the Bambu.  It is either lot larger (1KW) or it is two separate.  When they could not get the larger ones, they had to source two.  At that time, the redesign of the extruder stepped in.  It is not complicated if you follow the vlog posts.  It is not just a simple PSU issue, and they have made that clear.  Also, comparing the Bambu PSU or the Bambu to the XL is like comparing a Ford Pickup to Tractor Trailer Truck.  There is a clear difference in size and capabilities.     

RE: Prusa Delays

i find it kinda funny that cwbullet always defends Prusa in any kind of way.... 
Prusa is atm in a bad state for the communication ... we will see next week if they can show a finished XL in delivery state. 
My Co-worker asked last week in chat, answer was: "we cant give a prope delivery status". 

Think People would be happier to hear a bad news like " Sorry guys -  we have problems with this and that"  instead of nothing. 
and yes i mean  in regular times not only  6 months  apart...

RE:

Communication is less than desirable.  But a lot of folks complain to complain.  My only point is if you complain, do something about it.  Cancel your order and move on.  Complaining on this forum is not doing anything but ruffling your feathers.  

Heck, one guy complained so much that I bought his printer just to have him move along.  

RE: Prusa Delays

Shills always gonna shill. Just gotta be able to identify them, then ignore them and keep scrolling right past their posts that add very little to discussions.

Posted by: @niklas-2

i find it kinda funny that cwbullet always defends Prusa in any kind of way.... 
Prusa is atm in a bad state for the communication ... we will see next week if they can show a finished XL in delivery state. 
My Co-worker asked last week in chat, answer was: "we cant give a prope delivery status". 

Think People would be happier to hear a bad news like " Sorry guys -  we have problems with this and that"  instead of nothing. 
and yes i mean  in regular times not only  6 months  apart...

RE:

Well some complain just to to vent and this is an understandable reaction to Prusa's lousy communication. As good as a reason for someone to come to  posts full of complains, to voice his/her opinion in favor of Prusa. Its an open forum. Also for some people that delayed other orders or projects believing that the XL was on track and it was worth waiting a few months, or was considering it as a gift lets say these Christmas (a year after) and not get a simple delivery estimate is very frustrating and a simple "cancel the order" is not going to eliminate their disappointment for the company. To clarify that is not my case since i pre-ordered a dual head but my  mk3S for the time being is enough for me and i can wait, but i can understand them. I mean some  of us only within these posts can get some inside in what is going on, since not all of us want to spent a few hours each week going through vlogs and whatnot just to get some news. And prusa is SOOOO vocal about everything other thing in their blog. Some are ruffling feathers and some are holding prusas banners. All have the right to express frustration or admiration. 

And about the Nextruder and cycloid thingie. A year ago Prusa made a huge announcement  about the XL with half of it being about the best thing in the 3d world since printed pancakes. THE NEXTRUDER WITH CYCLOID GEAR SMTHNG SMTHG. I truly respect and consider it a positive on their image that they had the courage to drop it and redesign it when it didn't meet their standards but i still consider it surprising . I mean Pusas guys and gals.... If you are taking preorders for deliveries after six months you don't already know if what you advertised so strong, is meeting your standards or not? What kind of tests did you perform before and what changed is such a short period? They claimed that production was difficult. Didnt you know this when you designed the thing? Anyway for the time being personally i can wait but i believe i have the right to comment or ruffle my feathery ass either here -and hoping that a passing soul from prusa sees it- or under the comment section to their blog presentation. Even if i decided for the time being not to cancel my order.

RE: Prusa Delays

How many new products are going to come out and force the XL further down the forum list before they ship.

RE: Prusa Delays

Nice name calling.  Clearly you are not the adult in the room.  I am pretty critical of Prusa at times, but I see no benefit of crying on the forum like a child.  

Posted by: @selta

Shills always gonna shill. Just gotta be able to identify them, then ignore them and keep scrolling right past their posts that add very little to discussions.

Posted by: @niklas-2

i find it kinda funny that cwbullet always defends Prusa in any kind of way.... 
Prusa is atm in a bad state for the communication ... we will see next week if they can show a finished XL in delivery state. 
My Co-worker asked last week in chat, answer was: "we cant give a prope delivery status". 

Think People would be happier to hear a bad news like " Sorry guys -  we have problems with this and that"  instead of nothing. 
and yes i mean  in regular times not only  6 months  apart...

 

RE: Prusa Delays

If you want a Prusa printer anytime near Xmas, you need to but an MK3S or Mini.  

Posted by: @tsamisacytanet-com-cy

Well some complain just to to vent and this is an understandable reaction to Prusa's lousy communication. As good as a reason for someone to come to  posts full of complains, to voice his/her opinion in favor of Prusa. Its an open forum. Also for some people that delayed other orders or projects believing that the XL was on track and it was worth waiting a few months, or was considering it as a gift lets say these Christmas (a year after) and not get a simple delivery estimate is very frustrating and a simple "cancel the order" is not going to eliminate their disappointment for the company. To clarify that is not my case since i pre-ordered a dual head but my  mk3S for the time being is enough for me and i can wait, but i can understand them. I mean some  of us only within these posts can get some inside in what is going on, since not all of us want to spent a few hours each week going through vlogs and whatnot just to get some news. And prusa is SOOOO vocal about everything other thing in their blog. Some are ruffling feathers and some are holding prusas banners. All have the right to express frustration or admiration. 

And about the Nextruder and cycloid thingie. A year ago Prusa made a huge announcement  about the XL with half of it being about the best thing in the 3d world since printed pancakes. THE NEXTRUDER WITH CYCLOID GEAR SMTHNG SMTHG. I truly respect and consider it a positive on their image that they had the courage to drop it and redesign it when it didn't meet their standards but i still consider it surprising . I mean Pusas guys and gals.... If you are taking preorders for deliveries after six months you don't already know if what you advertised so strong, is meeting your standards or not? What kind of tests did you perform before and what changed is such a short period? They claimed that production was difficult. Didnt you know this when you designed the thing? Anyway for the time being personally i can wait but i believe i have the right to comment or ruffle my feathery ass either here -and hoping that a passing soul from prusa sees it- or under the comment section to their blog presentation. Even if i decided for the time being not to cancel my order.

RE: Prusa Delays

Pretty good question! Though not sure the forum ordering matters - I'm sure once it does eventually ship, this forum will be popin' with activity. 

Posted by: @milehigh3der

How many new products are going to come out and force the XL further down the forum list before they ship.

RE: Prusa Delays

Prusa Research is in a no win position.  People want more frequent updates, but customers will be critical if there is nothing of substance.  The XL will ship when the design is done AND the components are available.  It’s not just components to build the machines, but spare parts and warranty parts stockpiled.  

Do I want my XL?  Yep.  
Do I need Raspberry Pi’s?  Yep.

Do I understand that the GLOBAL supply chain networks are still broken? Yep.  It’s now into next year before the Raspberry Pi supply constraints ease.

No one wants to leave money on the table.  But Prusa Research is competing globally for components.  I don’t blame them one bit for keeping final design and BOM info closely guarded.  And component availability will drive design choices as well as redesigns.

Manufacturers are over a barrel with high costs, no availability and protracted delivery times.  And now scalpers are  wreaking havoc with siphoning up future component fulfillments and marking up the costs then transferring the delivery to what would be the normal “First Sale” customers.

Manufacturers also now need to guard against counterfeit components.

Prusa Research deserves credit for at least trying to launch a new product in todays environment.  

Just a reminder that even before the global breakdown that Prusa has had to deal with component shortages.  They had to change stepper motor suppliers for the Mini when the initial supplier could not provide the quantities Prusa required.  There was a firmware update needed for those machines.

And, let me point out the very fact that Prusa updated the design after they determined that the cyclodial drive would not meet their expectations  demonstrates that the machine is getting a lot attention as they try to sort out the impacts the supply chain has on the final configuration.

The machine will come when it’s ready and can be built.  

RE: Prusa Delays

After I was afraid this discussion had reached Reddit level, glad to see a more level-headed post.

The machine will come when it’s ready and can be built.

What more can you say. For some of us this may be too late. Others will be happy to wait. It may affect Prusa's reputation, one way or another. But what would certainly affect it is releasing a product vastly buggier than what you'd expect from a Gen 1 system.

RE: Prusa Delays

Absolutely true.  

My military history has made me very flexible with timelines.  

Posted by: @fuchsr

After I was afraid this discussion had reached Reddit level, glad to see a more level-headed post.

The machine will come when it’s ready and can be built.

What more can you say. For some of us this may be too late. Others will be happy to wait. It may affect Prusa's reputation, one way or another. But what would certainly affect it is releasing a product vastly buggier than what you'd expect from a Gen 1 system.

RE: Prusa Delays

I think most of us are simply asking for an update. After several months, one should be easy and simple to put together. If it won't be out for another year, that's more understandable when it's communicated, rather than being left in the dark for another year (hypothetical timeline, don't jump down my throat for exaggerating to make a point). 🙂 

Posted by: @fuchsr

After I was afraid this discussion had reached Reddit level, glad to see a more level-headed post.

The machine will come when it’s ready and can be built.

What more can you say. For some of us this may be too late. Others will be happy to wait. It may affect Prusa's reputation, one way or another. But what would certainly affect it is releasing a product vastly buggier than what you'd expect from a Gen 1 system.

RE: Prusa Delays

FormNext is next week.  Prusa has stated they are attending and that there will be updates on the AFS and the XL (at least my addled memory recalls this)