RE: Prusa Delays
I was thinking about Voron 350mm vs XL fight. That would be cool. Technology battle.
RE: Prusa Delays
Given the tester did not have the multi head version yet and the beta phase of it is expected to last 2 months, it seems we have to be patient a while longer ^^
RE: Prusa Delays
So on 18/11/2021 on THIS forum Jakub Dolezal from Prusa Research wrote " Prusa XL is out". Where it is now? Only few of them are send to betatesters - 15 months after "is out". Yes I also have preordered one, but can I get it this year? Promises and excuses why it is not finished we have until until. I am not impatient, but waiting more than year and a half ( if it will be) is too much. For that Bambulab X1 with AMS is here only one month after ordering. I don´t want to cancel my order for Prusa XL but....
RE:
Must stop by saying that the XL has nothing to do with a bambu because the XL is much larger. Yes, it's true.
But I will never have bought/pre-ordered a prusa XL with 5 head only for the sizes.
What interested me the most was the multicolor so yes the Prusa XL will have several heads etc etc.
But we will always be limited to 5 colors. With the bambu X1C you can go up to 16 colors.
I think if I have to validate the Prusa XL. It will only be a maximum of two heads.
And again, I don't know yet where I'm going to put it now that I have the bambu with 2 AMS.
But good considering the announcements. I still have plenty of time to think about where I'm going to put them.
RE: Prusa Delays
As far as the multimaterial. I thing that comparing AMS with XL's multihead is a loss for the AMS. I dont have it but as far as i know, by reading on the internet, is a filament selection process similar to mmu2s. This, for me, have the drawbacks of large increases in printing time and waisted material. Maybe it works better that the mmu2 which is prone to failures due to filament tips etc. Still the reason that i'm leaving this approach (i have an MK3S with mmu2s) is mainly due to that increase in printing time. Something that needs 10h turns to a day and even more if you increase the colours/materials. And it becomes a chore if there is even one failure during the printing that you didn't notice ( i dont thing that are many people that babysit a 24h print). Not to mention the problems mmu2 has when printing with different materials since they come through the same hotend. Maybe AMS solved all this problems but still im not sure about the excess in waste and printing time. For me 5 heads are more than enough and i even preorder a two head since the thing that really caught my interest is the actual multimaterial capabilities of the multihead approach.
Must stop by saying that the XL has nothing to do with a bambu because the XL is much larger. Yes, it's true.
But I will never have bought/pre-ordered a prusa XL with 5 head only for the sizes.
What interested me the most was the multicolor so yes the Prusa XL will have several heads etc etc.
But we will always be limited to 5 colors. With the bambu X1C you can go up to 16 colors.
I think if I have to validate the Prusa XL. It will only be a maximum of two heads.
And again, I don't know yet where I'm going to put it now that I have the bambu with 2 AMS.
But good considering the announcements. I still have plenty of time to think about where I'm going to put them.
RE: Prusa Delays
You are comparing incomparable.
AMS except the color variation brings also the dry chamber. Tons of issues I have with MMU2s are just with the filament is not dry. Having dry chamber - and possibility to stacking AMS (up to 16 colors) is a great step forward. Prusa XL has it own advantages, but for sake of comparing of price of XL with 5 heads (when you want a 5 colored print) - which costs around 3.7k and god knows when you get it - compare it with a BL X1Carbon combo + 3x AMS unit + router which cost you 2.5k - it is 1.2k difference and you have printer with nice case and dry chambers for 16 filaments which can print in 16 colors!
I understand prusa xl has larger surface to print on, but you were talking about multimaterial.
As far as the multimaterial. I thing that comparing AMS with XL's multihead is a loss for the AMS. I dont have it but as far as i know, by reading on the internet, is a filament selection process similar to mmu2s. This, for me, have the drawbacks of large increases in printing time and waisted material. Maybe it works better that the mmu2 which is prone to failures due to filament tips etc. Still the reason that i'm leaving this approach (i have an MK3S with mmu2s) is mainly due to that increase in printing time. Something that needs 10h turns to a day and even more if you increase the colours/materials. And it becomes a chore if there is even one failure during the printing that you didn't notice ( i dont thing that are many people that babysit a 24h print). Not to mention the problems mmu2 has when printing with different materials since they come through the same hotend. Maybe AMS solved all this problems but still im not sure about the excess in waste and printing time. For me 5 heads are more than enough and i even preorder a two head since the thing that really caught my interest is the actual multimaterial capabilities of the multihead approach.
Must stop by saying that the XL has nothing to do with a bambu because the XL is much larger. Yes, it's true.
But I will never have bought/pre-ordered a prusa XL with 5 head only for the sizes.
What interested me the most was the multicolor so yes the Prusa XL will have several heads etc etc.
But we will always be limited to 5 colors. With the bambu X1C you can go up to 16 colors.
I think if I have to validate the Prusa XL. It will only be a maximum of two heads.
And again, I don't know yet where I'm going to put it now that I have the bambu with 2 AMS.
But good considering the announcements. I still have plenty of time to think about where I'm going to put them.
RE: Prusa Delays
Yes. You are right, and don´t forget that Bambulab IS on market and Prusa XL is somewhere in the space of beta products. Maybe..
RE: Prusa Delays
Yes i agree that are not directly comparable, Thats why i replied to the post of @onishin. Indeed i dont care for the extra size (its a plus but not something that affected my choice). Again if your main concern is a nice package and the ability to print with more that 5 colours , yes surely BL is the choice to go for. But for the added printing times due to filament changes and true multimaterial i dont know how well BL can cope. Yes they are different markets. Yes i also agree that its probably overpriced. I say probably because on the Prusa side's we are talking for 5 complete heads and not for a mechanism for splicing filaments and drying them. Dont forget that mmu2s is not that expensive and shares a similar principle of using a single head. Now i'm usually vending a bit by critisising Prusa's approach on the whole XL production and distribution workflow. On the other hand i read mainly good remarks about BL. I have an mk3s mmu2s and sl1 turn to sls and on half of them i had issues with shipping delays etc. Prusa has to work on the tendency to build up expectations, and then not being able to stand by them. But personally i do not want another mmu, pallete, AMS approach. I had my eye on the e3d toolchanger when it came out and i had my hopes then, that Prusa would adopt this. Thats why i decided to go for a new printer and probably replace my mk3s. That also why i like Prusa. Frustrations aside they take usefull new technologies and concepts or even older ones and incorporate them in their designs. Also their printers are more or less upgradable and not pretty boxes that you have to buy them again every time something new happens (Ultimaker im talking about you). My MK3 is constantly upgraded and my SL1 got significantly better because of this approach.
But again everyone has difference needs, wants and school of thinking. I 'm hope that when or if i receive this printer it want be a bug bus, but a nice dependable multimaterial machine that will make me forget my mmu and XL shipping and cost small frustrations rather than add to them.
You are comparing incomparable.
AMS except the color variation brings also the dry chamber. Tons of issues I have with MMU2s are just with the filament is not dry. Having dry chamber - and possibility to stacking AMS (up to 16 colors) is a great step forward. Prusa XL has it own advantages, but for sake of comparing of price of XL with 5 heads (when you want a 5 colored print) - which costs around 3.7k and god knows when you get it - compare it with a BL X1Carbon combo + 3x AMS unit + router which cost you 2.5k - it is 1.2k difference and you have printer with nice case and dry chambers for 16 filaments which can print in 16 colors!
I understand prusa xl has larger surface to print on, but you were talking about multimaterial.As far as the multimaterial. I thing that comparing AMS with XL's multihead is a loss for the AMS. I dont have it but as far as i know, by reading on the internet, is a filament selection process similar to mmu2s. This, for me, have the drawbacks of large increases in printing time and waisted material. Maybe it works better that the mmu2 which is prone to failures due to filament tips etc. Still the reason that i'm leaving this approach (i have an MK3S with mmu2s) is mainly due to that increase in printing time. Something that needs 10h turns to a day and even more if you increase the colours/materials. And it becomes a chore if there is even one failure during the printing that you didn't notice ( i dont thing that are many people that babysit a 24h print). Not to mention the problems mmu2 has when printing with different materials since they come through the same hotend. Maybe AMS solved all this problems but still im not sure about the excess in waste and printing time. For me 5 heads are more than enough and i even preorder a two head since the thing that really caught my interest is the actual multimaterial capabilities of the multihead approach.
Must stop by saying that the XL has nothing to do with a bambu because the XL is much larger. Yes, it's true.
But I will never have bought/pre-ordered a prusa XL with 5 head only for the sizes.
What interested me the most was the multicolor so yes the Prusa XL will have several heads etc etc.
But we will always be limited to 5 colors. With the bambu X1C you can go up to 16 colors.
I think if I have to validate the Prusa XL. It will only be a maximum of two heads.
And again, I don't know yet where I'm going to put it now that I have the bambu with 2 AMS.
But good considering the announcements. I still have plenty of time to think about where I'm going to put them.
RE: Prusa Delays
Multi Material is not multi color...
with the XL i can use PETG for support and PLA for the part.
Or make a TPU seal in a PC part.
+ quick cahnge, less wasted material.
i have a MMU and it sucks so much i haven't used it for years.
For a lot of peaple it will be enough and great to print in different colors. i am only interested in different marterials.
RE: Prusa Delays
yes.. you would not do a lot of multi-color because of the wastage with either MMU or AMS. But for a "one of" it might be worth it.. Some things I can think it might be great.. would be lettering.. either a) raised on the top layer or b) inset as 2 parts (bottom layer) so you can do the inset in 1 color, then the rest in another. I do quite a bit raised lettering on top and it is a pain having to wait for a print to get to that point so you can change filaments..
Also if you print parts sequentially, and want different color parts.. I'd think the AMS would be ideal.
Not designed to replace dual extruder. As I get better using support, and with more slicer options, I haven't wanted a dual-extruder often. I can see print farms wanting it for sales.
Multi Material is not multi color...
with the XL i can use PETG for support and PLA for the part.
Or make a TPU seal in a PC part.
+ quick cahnge, less wasted material.
i have a MMU and it sucks so much i haven't used it for years.
For a lot of peaple it will be enough and great to print in different colors. i am only interested in different marterials.
RE: Prusa Delays
Another thing. I hear that BL-AMS can print up to 16 colour. I dont know how often or how practical is going to be. If you add 10 colours with half of them in each layer then the printing time will increase dramatically. And that taking assuming you can find 10-16 different colour of pla that you can use in your project. I'm not arguing against AMS just wondering. With mmu2s even if a print was going well, in the end of the day, anything complex with a lot of filament changes didnt worth the exponentially increase in printing time.
RE: Prusa Delays
10 Days till february ends and no one got an Email with order details ...
Maybe march wasnt march 23 ...
RE: Prusa Delays
Hmmm, maybe I missed that they said March 1 and not just March…
nope…
RE: Prusa Delays
February 22nd is the last Wednesday of the month. Prusa Live is usually aired that day. We should know more on Wednesday. Hopefully.
RE: Prusa Delays
I have MMU2 and I am using it to print with several kind of materials usually PLA+BVOH and PLA+PETG for obvious reasons as well as for color printing. The same applies for the AMS. For some other appliances like Pallette it is not possible to splice such combinations of filaments. So I can say AMS is also multimaterial with one exception - flexible materials.
Multi Material is not multi color...
with the XL i can use PETG for support and PLA for the part.
Or make a TPU seal in a PC part.
+ quick cahnge, less wasted material.
i have a MMU and it sucks so much i haven't used it for years.
For a lot of peaple it will be enough and great to print in different colors. i am only interested in different marterials.
RE: Prusa Delays
I am designing multicolor prints for MMU. Currently I am using all 5 colors (one as base color) but usually I keep 2-3 colors per layer. In very rare cases 4-5. It is matter of design. However having 16 colors pallete (with drychambers) allows me to print almost any model in color variations without changing filaments (as required in MMU), I would just have indexed palette and no need to go to printer and change filaments - with checking which color needs to go where. It is clear you did not use MMU before. I consider having 16 colors always ready in their respective dry chambers as huge advantage.
Another thing. I hear that BL-AMS can print up to 16 colour. I dont know how often or how practical is going to be. If you add 10 colours with half of them in each layer then the printing time will increase dramatically. And that taking assuming you can find 10-16 different colour of pla that you can use in your project. I'm not arguing against AMS just wondering. With mmu2s even if a print was going well, in the end of the day, anything complex with a lot of filament changes didnt worth the exponentially increase in printing time.
RE: Prusa Delays
I used MMU2S since i own one. It took me quite a while to get it to an "decent" stage where most often that not (not always) i get prints without intervention. A lot of tinkering and 3rd party solutions had to be done. Never printed with more that 3 colors since it doesn't worth the extra time (for me anyway). If i can and this is most of the time, i print it in parts and paint it afterwards. AMS shares the same con for me. Time waste. Now as i said different opinions and different needs with different products needed. I never had in my place 16 different colors of PETG (i dont usually use PLA). At most i have 4 different PETG colours unboxed. I keep them in DIY dry boxes. I'm not sure anyway how many different colors Prusament i can buy. If that solution fits you or anyone else that really likes printing in multicolor then congrats you found the product suited for you. For me that printing time and true multimaterial (TPU included) is the one that matters, AMS it doesn't worth replacing MMU. I just truly hope we wont discover new problems with multiheaded.
I am designing multicolor prints for MMU. Currently I am using all 5 colors (one as base color) but usually I keep 2-3 colors per layer. In very rare cases 4-5. It is matter of design. However having 16 colors pallete (with drychambers) allows me to print almost any model in color variations without changing filaments (as required in MMU), I would just have indexed palette and no need to go to printer and change filaments - with checking which color needs to go where. It is clear you did not use MMU before. I consider having 16 colors always ready in their respective dry chambers as huge advantage.
Another thing. I hear that BL-AMS can print up to 16 colour. I dont know how often or how practical is going to be. If you add 10 colours with half of them in each layer then the printing time will increase dramatically. And that taking assuming you can find 10-16 different colour of pla that you can use in your project. I'm not arguing against AMS just wondering. With mmu2s even if a print was going well, in the end of the day, anything complex with a lot of filament changes didnt worth the exponentially increase in printing time.
RE: Prusa Delays
Hope you are right....
February 22nd is the last Wednesday of the month. Prusa Live is usually aired that day. We should know more on Wednesday. Hopefully.
RE: Prusa Delays
i’m going to be frank, I do not expect anything to be said about shipping this week. Now, the March Prusa Live I expect a recap on the ordering fulfillment and early customer feedback.
I am sure that there will be those who bring the FUD that hundreds of units have not shipped, totally ignoring Jo said MARCH.
RE: Prusa Delays
It is a shame Prusa could not deliver due to many uncontrollable circumstances and a couple of sub-optimal business choices in the past few years. Consumers can be patient at times, but there is a limit to the duration.