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Sauceman
(@sauceman)
Member
Feeling really let down by tech support

I'm only posting this here because prusa doesn't have a spot for reviews or comments on the products page

I've had my XL since the end of last year and haven't been able to get a stable print out of it yet.  On both my satin and textured sheet I've had nothing but issues with adhesion and every time I get tech support online the only thing they tell me to do is clean the print bed. I've tried cleaning them with dish soap(dawn), lightly scouring the surface with the rough side of the sponge, cleaning with 90% IPA both while the heatbed is hot and cold. I've pre-warmed the bed at 100c for 15 minutes before I try to print, I print almost exclusively in PETG (230 at nozzle 85 at the bed), I only use overture petg (always run through a drier for several hours before I use it).  I've also played around with my z offset going both positive and negative with little success.  I've had almost zero issues with my MK3 with adhesion.

Even one time for fun I put my Mk3 sheet on my XL and amazingly it worked beautifully, but still when I ask tech support they go right to "have you cleaned the bed" completely ignoring the information I give them.

The last print failure I had was bad enough that it broke the nozzle tube and I had filament oozing out of the area where the brass nozzle ends and the steel tube starts and when I told tech support about it I was told to just tighten it and it would stop leaking.

I'm now at the point where I want to return it and get a refund but I can't because I spent too much time just trying to get it to work.

I don't want to say the company is bad but a ball was dropped somewhere and now I'm out a lot of money on a machine that doesn't work.

Posted : 14/02/2024 12:40 pm
EastMemphis
(@eastmemphis)
Estimable Member
RE:

My experience with tech support at Prusa is they just want to blow you off. That's all. They want you to go away and that's it. Help you? Forget it. It's help yourself.

If I were you, I'd buy another textured sheet and see how that works. You'll likely find it solves your problem.

You won't get any warranty service from tech support. I think they're are so loathe to supplying warranty parts that they'll spend 15 back and forths on email to avoid even mentioning warranty.

Prusa support has eroded significantly in the last year.

I print a lot of PETG and the textured sheet works great. I love the look of the finished parts as they appear to have been injected molded rather than printed. Get a new sheet and try it out. I think you'll end up a lot happier.

Printables: https://www.printables.com/@EastMemphis_905139/models

Posted : 14/02/2024 1:11 pm
ntdesign
(@ntdesign)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

I guess you already tried bumping the temperature? I used to always print PETG at 230/85 on my Mk2.5s but adhesion and layer bonding on the XL with these settings were ... not that great. Raised the temperature to 245/85 and everything is bueno. Stringing is better than on the Mk2.5s, so no problem to go higher. Also make sure you have a super clean nozzle when it starts probing, a tiny bit of gunk can throw off the 1st layer enough to make the prints detach. Your cleaning seems sound, I just do casual IPA wipes every 5-10 prints or so and that's enough. Both with textured and satin. Textured is more sensitive to gunk on the nozzle.
Another thing I ran into is not properly affixed or installed nozzles. When it's cold, try moving it up and down manually - it should not move at all when applying reasonable force. If it moves, either your screw is not tightened enough (be careful not to overtighten) or it does not engage the retaining groove (not pushed up far enough). I messed up a nozzle change this way and the filament managed to push it into the bed and ruin the sheet. This would also mess up 1st layer calibration and you wouldn't necessarily notice. If you have damaged a nozzle, that indicates it changed position during the print, so definitely check this.

Retry with your Mk3 sheet, to check if your success was random. Check all 4 corners this way, maybe it's a problem with the flatness of the bed. Turn over your existing XL sheets and check again. I can see a manufacturing flaw happening, but very unlikely on different types of sheet and on both sides. That said, I have a subjective feeling that the XL textured sheet has a different grain than Mk3 sheet and my printed surfaces look slightly different. The pattern seems more subtle/smoother on the XL, but that can also have other reasons.

Posted : 14/02/2024 1:40 pm
Zappes
(@zappes)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

I'm surprised by the harsh criticism of Prusa's support staff. Apart from one specific person who should _not_ do a job with customer contact, I always found them extremely helpful and friendly.

My models on Printables
Posted : 14/02/2024 3:35 pm
Acht and Brian liked
EastMemphis
(@eastmemphis)
Estimable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

When was the last time you contacted Prusa support? It was good years ago but now is just a sewer of useless people who have one job and one job only: Get rid of the complainer. They want you gone anyway they can as long as it doesn't require actually helping you.

Posted by: @zappes

I'm surprised by the harsh criticism of Prusa's support staff. Apart from one specific person who should _not_ do a job with customer contact, I always found them extremely helpful and friendly.

 

Printables: https://www.printables.com/@EastMemphis_905139/models

Posted : 14/02/2024 3:59 pm
ntdesign
(@ntdesign)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

I have no recent experience, but back in the MMU1/2 days it was hit or miss. 70% of the time it was alright or pleasant. 30% I just gave up and came back 2 weeks later to pull another support person from the lottery. At least Prusa support never treated me like an idiot by default, which puts them way above your average company.

Posted : 14/02/2024 4:02 pm
Zappes
(@zappes)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

My last experience is maybe 2 months ago - but then I only had a question regarding the connector for the xLCD, not a complaint. That may be a different thing.

My models on Printables
Posted : 14/02/2024 4:30 pm
EastMemphis
(@eastmemphis)
Estimable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

The first contact I had with support after getting my XL involved a faulty heater in the #1 tool. In their documentation, they give ohms readings for the heater and mine was obviously out of spec. That didn't matter to tech support which kept asking for more and more things, then videos and all sorts of nonsense before flatly turning me down for a warranty claim. This is for a lousy $13 part. It was days of back and forth. This was before any XL parts were listed on their website. Finally, I just asked for the link to the part so I could buy it myself. That was the only thing they did in my favor. I bought the part, it solved the problem. It could have gone so much better if they just had done what their document says and send me the right part when the one provided was way out of spec.

The thing that really bothered me is that they constantly blamed me for the problem. They wouldn't accept any responsibility for the failure. If I hadn't just purchased the part, I'd still be going back and forth with some moron who didn't even know what an ohm was much less have any idea on how it affected an electrical part.

Once I solved the problem, I wrote back telling them the solution and they said they'd give me a credit for the lousy $12. They never followed through on that.

I have a 1mm warp in the center of my heat bed for my XL that I asked support for a procedure to fix. They told me it's no problem and software will take care of it. Again, went back and forth with them until I finally pried it out of them. There is no procedure. If they had just said that to start off with instead of blaming me for the problem and deflecting constantly, I would have been satisfied that I am on my own. It was frustrating trying to pry that out of someone who obviously had no idea what the term precision or tolerance meant in a manufacturing environment. 

I'd say you'll get better support from your dog.

Printables: https://www.printables.com/@EastMemphis_905139/models

Posted : 14/02/2024 4:39 pm
Brian
(@brian-12)
Estimable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

I've dealt with them in the past year and was happy.  I think my key for success was dealing with 1 person.

I think what we have to consider is that like any customer support we have to do the dance at first of doing stuff that we've already done.  You have to look from their eyes.  Most people contacting support probably have issues that were self inflicted, or that are user error.  Customer support have to somehow filter between that and people who actually have a machine problem.

I am engineer in a field that builds precision machines, and knowing what I know I'm amazed that Prusa offers warranty and support for customer built machines (aka kits).  Can you imagine how many of the 10,000 machines they shipp a month are put together wrong, or the customer doesn't know how to use it properly and calls support for help. 

If my company did that we'd be bankrupt in no time. 

I'm not saying there isn't bad customer service people, but my experience has been that for the most part very good.

Service is tough.  Imagine trying to troubleshoot a problem someone is having over the phone, and trying to explain to them how to fix something?  I just read a post on this forum where the person didn't know what a chamfer was.  This can be a tall task. 

Posted : 14/02/2024 4:42 pm
Acht and Asus1357 liked
Zappes
(@zappes)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support
Posted by: @brian-12

Service is tough.  Imagine trying to troubleshoot a problem someone is having over the phone, and trying to explain to them how to fix something?  I just read a post on this forum where the person didn't know what a chamfer was.  This can be a tall task. 

True. Whenever I talk to some support person, I think about how bad it is when I have to troubleshoot my mother's smartphone issues remotely... It takes a lot of patience.

My models on Printables
Posted : 14/02/2024 4:44 pm
Acht liked
EastMemphis
(@eastmemphis)
Estimable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

Sure, service is tough. I've done customer support for my engineering firm for decades. The number one thing I do is assume the customer is telling the truth.

Prusa, on the other hand, assumes the customer is lying and trying to cheat them. Why do I say this? Because when I reported my heater out of spec and told them what the reading was, they demanded a picture of the meter. When I sent that, they demanded a video. I sent that, then they demanded the gcode for the model I had an error with. How in the heck is the gcode going to tell them what the ohms reading on the heater was? It got really silly.

Assuming the customer is lying and trying to cheat the manufacturer starts off the conversation with the customer on the defensive. That leads to bad feelings regardless of the outcome.

Printables: https://www.printables.com/@EastMemphis_905139/models

Posted : 14/02/2024 6:34 pm
Acht liked
Sauceman
(@sauceman)
Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

 

Posted by: @brian-12

I think what we have to consider is that like any customer support we have to do the dance at first of doing stuff that we've already done.  You have to look from their eyes.  Most people contacting support probably have issues that were self inflicted, or that are user error.  Customer support have to somehow filter between that and people who actually have a machine problem.

 

I agree with you for the most part. I work in a similar role as a electromechanical tech for a company that makes aerospace parts and have always had to come to machine problems with a bit of skepticism on if it was the machine or the operator, but you can also tell a fair bit on how the issue is given to you.

If I walk up to a broken piece of equipment and the person just goes "ugg it no work good" I'm gonna assume they might have made a mistake and caused the issue. On the flip side if I get someone who gives me a pretty detailed account on how it was before/during the time of the issue I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't trying to play me.

So that's why in times like these I try to give the person as much detail as I can, such as how I've tried cleaning it already, the settings I've been trying to run things at, the fact that I've had successfully printed with my MK3 sheet on the bed of the XL, along with how even if you get a different person they can pull up the list of past times you have contacted them and see the chat history. Only to tell me try washing the print bed for the 100'th time is just frustrating.

Posted : 14/02/2024 9:58 pm
Brian liked
ntdesign
(@ntdesign)
Reputable Member
RE:

Filtering support requests is totally reasonable and nobody in their right mind should complain about this, but it makes no sense to apply the same rules to every problem and customer. Lesser qualified service personnel should just be allowed to escalate the issue to a more qualified tech, as soon as they realize they are talking to a customer who knows their shit. My telco provider is using such a system and it's been stellar. As soon as you mention technical terms and rudimentary checks you did in case of a problem, they'll relay to a technician in your area who has access to the hardware on their end. They would ask stuff like "what do you think the issue is", and then seriously consider if you could be right. If they think it's BS they'll explain why and tell you what you can do to prove them wrong.
PR would be well advised to adapt something like this. Because on the other end they'll have many users who would be overwhelmed or even shocked by the level of conversation you guys expect. Imagine you fell for the marketing hype and the XL is your first printer. Also I would not expect the average support person to be fluent in printer problems, especially multitool. It takes years of practical experience and they must have hired a lot of new staff. I'm not expecting these people to have printing as a hobby and waste their free time learning stuff for their possibly temporary job.
At least we have this forum, and for the most part it is productive and non-toxic. And there are usually other options for spare parts, at least when a printer has matured. I know it's not much consolation in your situation rn, but there are indeed people willing to help.

Posted : 15/02/2024 9:42 am
UjinDesign
(@ujindesign)
Trusted Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support
Posted by: @eastmemphis

My experience with tech support at Prusa is they just want to blow you off. That's all. They want you to go away and that's it. Help you? Forget it. It's help yourself.

I am a bit surprised to hear this, since my multiple interactions with Prusa support have been great. I was friendly, they were friendly, everything worked out. I once spent like an hour on chat with support trying to solve a minor, minor problem (that barely even was a problem), the support agent was patient and helpful. This was on a Saturday 9 PM in their time-zone. 

If Prusa support is considered to have worsened over the years I'd love to see how it was before, since I have a hard time seeing it be any better than it is. (Immediately sending replacement parts might feel good as a customer, but depending on the issue it can result in longer downtime for you as a customer (while you wait for shipping) and is in many cases not even necessary.)

Posted : 15/02/2024 11:42 am
EastMemphis
(@eastmemphis)
Estimable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

I had my MK3 for years before my XL. I would tell people who asked that if they want to start out 3D printing, they need to get an MK3. I would recommend it to anyone and I posted about my success with the printer all over the internet. Any problem I had, I could solve with the support docs. It was a rock solid printer.

Now, if someone asks, I would remain quiet. I wouldn't recommend an MK4 or XL to anyone, let alone a first time buyer. Both are too immature, too new, too undocumented, for anyone but the extreme hobbyist with lots of experience. Their support is laughable, their documentation sparse, and the errors on the console are like the old blue screen of death. A cryptic message leading to a worthless document and lame support behind it.

So no more recommending Prusa for anything. That's where I am now. I think it will be years before the Nextruder based machines are ready for prime time, if ever.

@ntdesign stated it well when he said "Lesser qualified service personnel should just be allowed to escalate the issue to a more qualified tech" - This is exactly their issue. Once you get a meathead on the line, you're stuck with them. They won't escalate, refer, or do anything to actually help out if they don't know. The best thing to do is stop talking to that tech and start a new request. Maybe you'll get luckier next time. That is a terrible way to do support.

Printables: https://www.printables.com/@EastMemphis_905139/models

Posted : 15/02/2024 1:11 pm
Brian
(@brian-12)
Estimable Member
RE:

I'll say that I've had the exact opposite experience.  My MK4 has been flawless and it's leaps and bounds better in speed and print quality vs. my other 2 MK3s+'s.  I'm not a hobby printer either, I use them for my business, and I don't print figurines, we make functional parts with tolerances fits.  The .9 stepper motors produce circles and curves much better than the MK3.  There's not even any comparison to the 2 in that respect.  It prints so well that some parts that required secondary finishing on my MK3 don't require it on the MK4.

Now as far as documentation and problem solving I think that will come with time.  You can't really compare it to what's available on the MK3 since these new printers haven't been out that long.

Some will say that Prusa should already have this figured out, but people already complain that Prusa takes too long to release stuff.  Having every possible problem possible discovered and documented would make things take 10x longer. 

I'm almost finished building my XL and have had no issues up to this point.  Well see how the rest of it goes, but if there are hiccups I'll figure them out.  I don't see the XL as a beginner machine.  It's much more complicated and I see it as an advanced user machine for someone who wants to print multiple materials and it parts with different nozzle sizes. 

I think this video sums it up perfectly. The video is in comparison to the bambu, but in my mind you could inserts 1 of any of the modern printers in it's place and the video would be the same. 

Posted : 15/02/2024 2:22 pm
fuchsr, Acht, UjinDesign and 2 people liked
Sauceman
(@sauceman)
Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

So I'm not upset that all the problems with the XL haven't been figured out or that there isn't a lot of documentation on how to fix it.

My problem is that they won't admit that they don't know or that they really seem to want to help. When I explain to them how I have already tried washing the bed several different ways and their only response is "wash it again", that is a lack of actually doing troubleshooting.

Posted : 15/02/2024 2:38 pm
ntdesign
(@ntdesign)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

Under no circumstances would I recommend the XL to anyone even though I couldn't be happier with it. But I also enjoy having friends 😉

Posted : 15/02/2024 3:39 pm
Infantryman
(@infantryman)
Active Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

And you know what? When I am recommending a Bambu printer, the only argument coming from a Bambu basher (so, a Prusa owner and I am a Prusa owner by the way) is as follow: "I will not buy a Bambu because of bad customer service and also because they are selling their personal information". You are a proof that Prusa is NOT better at customer service. Secondly, those same dudes talking about personal information owns smartphone made in China, their IoT are listening to them and so on....so BS on this.

Posted : 29/02/2024 2:41 am
Zappes
(@zappes)
Reputable Member
RE: Feeling really let down by tech support

Well, I had a very nice experience with customer service just last week. I had a rather strange and non-reproducible issue with my heatbed, and a guy named "Taras" and me narrowed it down on the chat and had a lot of fun chatting about other stuff while waiting for a test print to fail. A replacement for my faulty thjermistor was sent with DHL express and now my MK4 is a happy printer again.

Experiences may vary depending on the person you talk to, especially as Prusa had to hire and train lots of new people within a very short time.

My models on Printables
Posted : 29/02/2024 8:00 am
Acht and Brian liked
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