RE: ERRF 2022
The staff at the Prusa booth did mention something about adding a camera to the XL. It’s possible it’s something they didn’t want to discuss. Hopefully it will be some type of add-on open source solution like a Raspberry P camera.
One thing that is never discussed on this XL forum is shipping. The XL is a large unit. It costs roughly $55 to ship to the MK3S+ Kit to the US. The SL1S is about $80. The XL is about 4 times the size of a MK3S+. I think it will cost about $200 to ship it which is ridiculous.
Maybe (for the US at least) the reason Prusa acquired Printed Solid was also to reduce the shipping cost on their products.
I am curious on shipping also. Does anyone have an estimate on the shipping charge?
.... but the better machine is the X1C
Not really a fair comparison X1C costs E1,129 + Vat + shipping and it's on preorder. Having said that it looks like a fantastic machine. I guess you must have been a kickstarter.
Might even consider when initial bugs are shaken out and when its clear how much shipping is going to be (it's a big box!).
I think shipping for pre-orders is reasonable. I’ve seen €18 mentioned. I think the X1CC is great value compared to the Prusa options. You would need the Mk3s+ with MMU2S and an enclosure to compare. Then the Prusa is still missing wifi, camera etc
RE:
It is not ridiculous to pay $200 for shipping if that is what it costs, but it would be better if they use a US warehouse or something.
The staff at the Prusa booth did mention something about adding a camera to the XL. It’s possible it’s something they didn’t want to discuss. Hopefully it will be some type of add-on open source solution like a Raspberry P camera.
One thing that is never discussed on this XL forum is shipping. The XL is a large unit. It costs roughly $55 to ship to the MK3S+ Kit to the US. The SL1S is about $80. The XL is about 4 times the size of a MK3S+. I think it will cost about $200 to ship it which is ridiculous.
Maybe (for the US at least) the reason Prusa acquired Printed Solid was also to reduce the shipping cost on their products.
I am curious on shipping also. Does anyone have an estimate on the shipping charge?
.... but the better machine is the X1C
Not really a fair comparison X1C costs E1,129 + Vat + shipping and it's on preorder. Having said that it looks like a fantastic machine. I guess you must have been a kickstarter.
Might even consider when initial bugs are shaken out and when its clear how much shipping is going to be (it's a big box!).
I think shipping for pre-orders is reasonable. I’ve seen €18 mentioned. I think the X1CC is great value compared to the Prusa options. You would need the Mk3s+ with MMU2S and an enclosure to compare. Then the Prusa is still missing wifi, camera etc
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
That is only useful if you use an MMU. I have never found a use for it. I print for my hobby and commercially. Multicolor printing for me and my clients is just a Niche.
I am curious on shipping also. Does anyone have an estimate on the shipping charge?
.... but the better machine is the X1C
Not really a fair comparison X1C costs E1,129 + Vat + shipping and it's on preorder. Having said that it looks like a fantastic machine. I guess you must have been a kickstarter.
Might even consider when initial bugs are shaken out and when its clear how much shipping is going to be (it's a big box!).
I think shipping for pre-orders is reasonable. I’ve seen €18 mentioned. I think the X1CC is great value compared to the Prusa options. You would need the Mk3s+ with MMU2S and an enclosure to compare. Then the Prusa is still missing wifi, camera etc
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
I use the AMS for multi-material more than multi-color. Once Bambu gets the feature done that allows spool runout, it's going to be even better.
RE: ERRF 2022
Of all the reasons to buy a printer, the screen is the last one. Bambulab is a great thing for the FDM world to happen, maybe not so much for Prusa we will see. They will eat into their market for sure, however their markets are in fact not totally overlapping. The Bambulab x1c has still to earn its track record of being a super reliable printer which will last and last. The somewhat closed nature of the printer is great for those who just wan to print, but less enticing for those who want a more open platform to play around with (but maybe don't want to get so deep into it as with a Voron were you should also invest some time in writing some nice macros etc).
No doubt, Prusa has to up its game, also in the Mk3 segment in the mid run or air will start getting thin, as soon as other Chinese companies will switch to copying the X1c rather than yet another i3 clone.
The XL certainly offers something Bambulab doesn't, not even by a close shot. But also the Bambulab offers things Prusa doesn't.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: ERRF 2022
Is that a wipe tower I see in the movie? Have they used that again?
RE: ERRF 2022
Certainly if somebody came up with an X1c (or even and X1) clone for the same price as a Mk3, they kill Prusa but it a big ask.
RE: ERRF 2022
They're very similarly priced:
Prusa MK3s - $1099 USD
Bambu X1 - $999 USD
Bambu X1C - $1199 USD
Certainly if somebody came up with an X1c (or even and X1) clone for the same price as a Mk3, they kill Prusa but it a big ask.
RE: ERRF 2022
They're very similarly priced:
Prusa MK3s - $1099 USD
Bambu X1 - $999 USD
Bambu X1C - $1199 USDCertainly if somebody came up with an X1c (or even and X1) clone for the same price as a Mk3, they kill Prusa but it a big ask.
Similar priced for the built model. The kit is still significantly better priced.
I have read a lot on the Bambu. The issue I have is the closed system. It is not open source, and it requires their hotend and nozzles. Maybe there will be knockoffs and other manufactures in the future. The reason I like the Prusa system is that it is open source. I can plug and play just about any hotend I want to install.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
I think the open-source nature is what will keep Prusa going.
Certainly if somebody came up with an X1c (or even and X1) clone for the same price as a Mk3, they kill Prusa but it a big ask.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
I mean, you have to compare as like-to-like as possible. If you index only on cost, Prusa is still blown out of the water by a whole ton of others who have kits as low as what, $150?
I agree on the closed ecosystem, but, Bambu has public committed to that not being long-term. They've already made it such that it doesn't require connectivity, for instance (which was a requirement when they first shipped). I think as more and more people get onboard the Bambu train, more 3rd parties will jump in for accessories. In the Discord for it, there's been discussions between Bambu and some other companies about interoperability and expansion, so we'll just have to see over time.
Being "closed source" doesn't at all bother me. I'm a bit of an OSS champion, but, I don't demand it of all my products. I won't contribute to their codebase, and don't have much interest in even viewing it. As long as they maintain any necessary license properly, that's all the care I can muster 😀
They're very similarly priced:
Prusa MK3s - $1099 USD
Bambu X1 - $999 USD
Bambu X1C - $1199 USDCertainly if somebody came up with an X1c (or even and X1) clone for the same price as a Mk3, they kill Prusa but it a big ask.
Similar priced for the built model. The kit is still significantly better priced.
I have read a lot on the Bambu. The issue I have is the closed system. It is not open source, and it requires their hotend and nozzles. Maybe there will be knockoffs and other manufactures in the future. The reason I like the Prusa system is that it is open source. I can plug and play just about any hotend I want to install.
RE: ERRF 2022
I was very interested on the XL when it was announced but afterwards I started to think that it’s too expensive and too big for me. Now, after those delays, I’m even less inclined to pre-order a XL, so where to go for a core XY printer with bigger capacity than a Mk3S?.
I’m not attracted by the Bambu. As cwbullet said, for the time being it’s a closed system with a proprietary slicer, nozzles and so on. If something went wrong you wouldn’t know where to start looking.
Instead, I became more and more interested in Voron printers, Yes, at first glance they look intimidating, being the opposite of the Bambu plug-and-play concept.
Voron demands to invest a lot of time reading, watching videos and get to know ‘how to’. It’s a lengthy learning curve and you have to print a lot of 3D parts. At the same time, the commitment required makes it more appealing to me. You can build your printer installing the hotend of your choice and there’re adapters for different extruders if you don't like Voron’s own models. You can use common software like Cura or Prusa Slicer and of course any nozzle it suits your hotend,
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1 and there’s no Multi material option, but you can have a 35x35x33 print size and all the components are standard. No custom mechanical parts or electronics requiring service only by the manufacturer. With a Voron, in case of malfunctioning, as you have built the machine from scratch it’s easier to identify and fix a problem, spares being easy to find.
RE:
I have to agree on Voron. That is a much better system than the Bambu. I am building a Voron 2.4. It will hold me till I get the XL. I have heard wonders on the speed.
On the build, the MK3S has taught me that building it is part of learning how to fix it. There is nothing I cannot fix on my MK3S because of the build experience.
I was very interested on the XL when it was announced but afterwards I started to think that it’s too expensive and too big for me. Now, after those delays, I’m even less inclined to pre-order a XL, so where to go for a core XY printer with bigger capacity than a Mk3S?.
I’m not attracted by the Bambu. As cwbullet said, for the time being it’s a closed system with a proprietary slicer, nozzles and so on. If something went wrong you wouldn’t know where to start looking.
Instead, I became more and more interested in Voron printers, Yes, at first glance they look intimidating, being the opposite of the Bambu plug-and-play concept.
Voron demands to invest a lot of time reading, watching videos and get to know ‘how to’. It’s a lengthy learning curve and you have to print a lot of 3D parts. At the same time, the commitment required makes it more appealing to me. You can build your printer installing the hotend of your choice and there’re adapters for different extruders if you don't like Voron’s own models. You can use common software like Cura or Prusa Slicer and of course any nozzle it suits your hotend,
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1 and there’s no Multi material option, but you can have a 35x35x33 print size and all the components are standard. No custom mechanical parts or electronics requiring service only by the manufacturer. With a Voron, in case of malfunctioning, as you have built the machine from scratch it’s easier to identify and fix a problem, spares being easy to find.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
The Prusa is the open-source counterpart to the Voron. Print-out of the box but super flexibility to go elsewhere with parts and software. With a Voron you get superior speed, I would also say print quality (especially if you don't push the speed) an almost overengineered design, you get input shaping etc and even more fundamental configurability and modularity. 100% open and therefore future proof.
The Bambulab is more like a Voron in basic design (as core xy) and also with its own kind of input shaping. However it is much more of a closed eco system than either of the other two. Yes it doesn't lock you into specific filament brands (a key to being successfu I think) but otherwise it is not really designed with tinkering in mind. I just think that is not quite the same market even though there is of course a substantial overlap. Regarding reliability it is also still a question mark. It has to prove itself yet if it can operate for years without major issues like a Prusa. That matters at least as much as printing speed or quality.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: ERRF 2022
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1 and there’s no Multi material option, ...
Actually there is a multimaterial option for the Voron: the Enraged Rabitt Carrott Feeder (ERCF).
It works with any Klipper run printer but its coming from the Voron community as far as I know and is also used by quite a few Voron owners with their Voron.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE:
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1 and there’s no Multi material option, ...
Actually there is a multimaterial option for the Voron: the Enraged Rabitt Carrott Feeder (ERCF).
It works with any Klipper run printer but its coming from the Voron community as far as I know and is also used by quite a few Voron owners with their Voron.
You're right. I read something about the 'enraged rabbit' weeks ago but I had forgotten. Anyway I was thinking more of the multiple printheads of the XL than to devices like the Prusa MMU2 or similar.
RE: ERRF 2022
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1
That is not true. You can pay more if you buy a kit.
I purchases LDO motors and all the parts for under $800 and it cost me $80 for filament to print the parts. I already have a hotend. I am going to use a Dragon.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1
That is not true. You can pay more if you buy a kit.
I purchases LDO motors and all the parts for under $800 and it cost me $80 for filament to print the parts. I already have a hotend. I am going to use a Dragon.
After the success I’ve had with the Mini I purchased this summer, I have a MK3S+ on order and due to arrive by the end of the month. I have an XL on deposit but so far down the list it might be 2025 before I ever get to have it.
I’ve been thining about a Voron, now that I have two functioning printers. What made you go with the Dragon, other than you already having it? If you didn’t already have it would you have went with something else?
Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool
RE: ERRF 2022
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1
That is not true. You can pay more if you buy a kit.
I purchases LDO motors and all the parts for under $800 and it cost me $80 for filament to print the parts. I already have a hotend. I am going to use a Dragon.
After the success I’ve had with the Mini I purchased this summer, I have a MK3S+ on order and due to arrive by the end of the month. I have an XL on deposit but so far down the list it might be 2025 before I ever get to have it.
I’ve been thining about a Voron, now that I have two functioning printers. What made you go with the Dragon, other than you already having it? If you didn’t already have it would you have went with something else?
I chose the Dragon High Flow because it is one of three that I could buy with a kit if I when that route. Documentation is fairly good for it and I felt that going with a known hotend that I have used before would be a good choice.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: ERRF 2022
Cost wise, surely you spend more on a Voron 2.4 that on the current Bambu X1
That is not true. You can pay more if you buy a kit.
I purchases LDO motors and all the parts for under $800 and it cost me $80 for filament to print the parts. I already have a hotend. I am going to use a Dragon.
For sure prices in the USA must be lower than in Europe. No way I could get all the parts for a Voron 2.4r2-350mm for less than 800 $/€. unless I purchased the cheapest extrusions, linear rails, belts and so on.
Anyway, I'm planning to get the LDO motors kit. It saves a lot of time searching the parts online, as well as on crimping and soldering. They include also a Nevermore filter, a klicky probe, an input shaper tool and other nice complements.