Any info on the Prusa XL?  

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

I have no experience with Y or multi extruders (yet).

I have been looking into getting an IDEX so you can have multi materials easier, not just multicolor (yes i know, the mmu2 can be scripted to work well with different materials as well).

One extruder for primary material, and the second for support or flex material for builtin dampening/seals/hinges.

Ratrig have one design, https://www.ratrig.com/3d-printing-cnc/3d-printer-kits/complete-kits/rat-rig-v-cast.html

Hictop/Tenlog another.

There are mods for Ender3 as well as the more premium Craftbot machines for example.

A toolchanger will also accomplish the same tasks, perhaps not with flex unless a lightweight direct extruder can be mounted.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

I manly want the easy swapability so that I can take an extruder that is acting up and take it off line and swap on one that has had some service done to it and keep on printing.  Considering that most of my issues are in the hot-end/extruder areas, being able to swap them would be almost like having spare printers.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@reddawg

I personally would not care if they have a tool changer with a dual-head option, but if they have it roped in with a dual head and no to tool changer, I think a lot of people will abstain from buying it.  There is a huge limitation to a dual extruder that has not seen resolved by any on the market (not my knowledge) and that is lost workspace on the print bed.  The dual extruder moves as a unit so there are areas on the print surface that each print head cannot reach.  Until the extruders can move independently, the benefits of dual extruders come only from having multiple materials readily available.  I think a tool changer or exchange will do what you want with a time and not space cost.  

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

Posted by: @cwbullet

@reddawg

I personally would not care if they have a tool changer with a dual-head option, but if they have it roped in with a dual head and no to tool changer, I think a lot of people will abstain from buying it.  There is a huge limitation to a dual extruder that has not seen resolved by any on the market (not my knowledge) and that is lost workspace on the print bed.  The dual extruder moves as a unit so there are areas on the print surface that each print head cannot reach.  Until the extruders can move independently, the benefits of dual extruders come only from having multiple materials readily available.  I think a tool changer or exchange will do what you want with a time and not space cost.  

And this alone should be enough to justify them. I have earlier advocated for a (dedicated) dual extruder model, but now that interchangeability is being floated, I see no reason why one of the "tools" can't be a dual extruder. Sure, you lose some build volume, but dual setups typically locate the nozzle orifices (orifi?) within 15-20mm of each other, so percentage-wise, on a larger overall bed, the loss is minimal. And depending on part design and intelligent orientation on the bed, may be nominal. With bowden tube extruding (as successfully used in the Mini), it should be possible to design a hot end with nozzles as close as 5-6mm. I think I have even seen nozzles (links not at hand) with 2-4 "inlet" channels leading to one exit, in a "manifold" manner. Cross-channel contamination could be an issue, but with suitable retraction and subsequent purging, the change from one filament to another should be quick and efficient. Filaments with large differences in melt/print temperatures would be difficult to accommodate but could probably work at the cost of some additional time during changeover to allow for temp stabilization.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

Quick update to my earlier request for large fomat FDM printer recommendation. We purchased a Vivedino Troodon 400 x 400 printer. We also got the direct drive extruder and all metal hot end upgrades. This comes almost fully assembled and fully enclosed with an extraction fan and HEPA filter. It's a coreXY design with Gates belts and Meanwell PS. It's a beautiful printer but will take a bit of work to dial in the best settings. No native slicer but profiles for Cura and Simplify 3D are available. Comments or questions welcome.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@reddawg

I have not issue with dual exturder option.  I just don’t want one because I need to entire print bed.  You loose some when you add a second extruder.  I have two large printers that I have filled all the way when printing my 12 inch scale Saturn V.  

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@cwbullet

How about there is a single extruder "tool" AND a dual extruder "tool"?  You are welcome to not buy the second one.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@reddawg

The same could be said to you.  I will tell you that Prusa will do it research and determine if it meet the market's needs and will make a profit.  I looked at the top 10 dual extruder printer sold and compared them to the top 10 sold 3d printers on the market and only the Flashforge Creator Pro 2 is on the list.  It is a small market.  I was given a dual extruder setup to add to my ender.  I never installed it.  I sold it on eBay.  

For you, I hope they offer it, but only if they do not lose money on the investment.    

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@cwbullet

I would not expect them to do anything less than full marketability research into potential features. We all have differing needs and expectations regarding usability and features. Many conventional tools I own have features I never knew I needed until I had them, and now find them indispensable. 3D printers are no different; build it and they will come/use it.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

I would have recommended a Voron, despites not owning one yet.

Everything I've heard about it sounds like some sort of sacred saint religion, but it needs more tuning than a regular assembly though.

That's why I'm holding back, also in total it nets you about 1500€ but apparently it's godsend...

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@doublex

That is a tinker printer.  With zero support and warranty, I will wait for a Prusa.  

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@cwbullet

Yeah it is, that's why I'm also going towards waiting for the Prusa XL, but then it could be an interesting learn still

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@derek-2

According to the 3D Printing Canada review of the Vivedino Troodon, it is a "carbon copy of the Voron."

Regardless of its pedigree, it does look nice.  The "true bed leveling" is an interesting feature.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

Posted by: @dimprov

@derek-2

According to the 3D Printing Canada review of the Vivedino Troodon, it is a "carbon copy of the Voron."

Regardless of its pedigree, it does look nice.  The "true bed leveling" is an interesting feature.

So it's basically a beefied-up version of the Voron since it has no plastic parts apparently, that plus support and warranty.

It does indeed looks amazing for the price, I'm a bit surprised he said it can print TPU well with a bowden setup though.

I'm not a huge fan of the clone board, but I guess the QC is following up.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

I suspect they will not give us a tool changer. Looking at the costs of what E3D’s one cost (despite it’s awesomeness) I can’t imagine people are going to want a $1500 movement system plus the rest of the printer, even if the rest cost only as much as a mk3. Printers over $2000 aren’t a high-volume item I imagine. And there is no reason (other than cost and x-axis stiffness) you can’t make the x-axis long enough for 2 IDEX heads to support full volume dual heads.

to me the primary feature I want with IDEX is dissolvable supports. Plus having a backup single nozzle printer in case one goes down/clogs to get a job out. If they do this they have to make first-layer calibration not-suck with multiple extruders. The other thing I really liked with my old E3D BigBox was a wipe box in the head-parking location. So you would pre-heat and while filament would often drool (as it does on the prusa) there was a silicone wiper blade that the machine rand the nozzle across cutting the filament off the nozzle face and it dropped into the bucket. It also kept the mess way down when purging to do a filament change.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@dimprov

It look like a good quality machine.  You said “it” is a copy of the Voron.  Just to clarify, you are talking the “Vivedino Troodon” and not the Prusa XL.  I do nto think anyone know about the Prusa XL yet.  I do not want to confuse folks.  

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@henryhbk

The tool change is a part of the Prusa XL.  It may be be an available upgrade and not a part of the core package.  Who will know will it is released?

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

I wouldn’t complain if we had a tool changer. Just saying that seems way more expensive than what prusa typically sells. When you break the $2000 price point, people aren’t going to generally want to buy kits, they want to get it assembled (or at least only a tiny bit of assembly - like the mini or taz 5 both which came in 2-3 pieces and you bolted them together, and voila) I would guess, since you are up in the prosumer level)

personally before I want a monster printer they need to fix the heat-creep in the extruder to prevent clogs in the PTFE, I have enough heat sink bolted onto the stepper to keep it cool but it looks silly; but given how horrible PTFE clogs are to deal with I was happy to do it, as that machine prints for days on end without problem.

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@cwbullet

I presume you mean the Troodon?  How did you come to the conclusion that it is a tinker printer? (Because right now I think you might be right - I have the 400 x 400 version).

RE: Any info on the Prusa XL?

@henryhbk

If you read to the end of this article https://blog.prusaprinters.org/november2020_update_original_prusa_i3_mk3splus_miniplus_mini_kit_satin_steel_sheet_40870/ you'll see Prusa have confirmed the XL will have a tool changer (as @cwbullet said it may be an option, but it will exist). The XL will be a new 'family' of printers, and certainly more expensive than than the Mk x family. Prusa have already released the Mini as a lower price option to the MK x, the XL will be a bigger and more expensive product family to appeal to a new market segment.