MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake
 
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antirez
(@antirez)
Active Member
MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Hi all, I hope somebody from Prusa is listening here. The Grid infill at input shaping speed creates all the kind of issues, is not faster than adaptive cubic or other similar (and better performing profiles), and will avoid both vibrations and that material will accumulate on the nozzle by passing on the same lines again and again. It's a simple change that will create less issues to less experienced folks with an MK4.

Posted : 09/09/2023 11:05 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Hi Antirez, 
the Mk4 Github, is a more direct access to the Prusa Developers, they rarely look here. 

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 09/09/2023 11:40 am
PeterT and antirez liked
Cipis
(@cipis)
Member
RE:

 and that material will accumulate on the nozzle by passing on the same lines again and again.

I wonder what makes you think that cubic infill is better in this regard.

adaptive cubic

Adaptive cubic is certainly not a good default infill type, since it's anisotropic.

or other similar

Which other similar infill types do you mean?

Posted : 12/09/2023 9:46 am
antirez
(@antirez)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Cubic infill does not insist in the same XY plane lines again and again. Try with the slicer and see the layers, it is self-evident. Yes, cubic, and not adaptive cubic, is a better default. For "other similar infill types" I mean infill having a more complex 3D structure, like gyroid. However of this class of infills, cubic is probably the only one that has a complex 3D structure while being composed of straight lines, so cubic would be the best pick probably. Here the point is that grid sucks and create issues and material that piles up on the nozzle. There are alternatives.

Posted : 12/09/2023 10:15 am
Cipis
(@cipis)
Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Cubic infill also passes already printed lines at the same level and actually creates even more issues for example with PETG (tearing). Grid is probably the most universal infill type at the moment. Gyroid infill is cool looking, but it prints slowly and creates huge g-code files. I am not saying we will use grid type as a default forever, but it will stay for now.

Posted : 12/09/2023 10:51 am
antirez
(@antirez)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

It is not true that cubic infill passes already printed lines. Each layer is skewed away in the X/Y.

Posted : 12/09/2023 11:15 am
Cipis
(@cipis)
Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

I am talking about single layer.

Posted : 13/09/2023 7:02 am
Ckobar
(@ckobar)
Trusted Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Hi, this is quite interesting, never really thought about that.

i took a look at the different infills. To me it looks like grid, triangle, star and all cubic infills will cross lines.

all other infills won't.

Posted : 13/09/2023 9:28 am
jseyfert3
(@jseyfert3)
Reputable Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

More issues than grid? I find with input shaping that grid tends to hit the infill layer crossings with an audible bump.

While cubic has single layer crossings, unlike grid it is shifting sideways each layer. I find I still get audible bumps when the nozzle crosses but only at the layers where the cubic paths merge. All other layers even though it crosses there are no audible bumps, just smooth crossings.

In short, cubic doesn’t solve all issues of grid, but in my limited experience it reduces them, while maintaining lots of speed. I am mostly using cubic infill on my MK4 with IS.

Also, the MINI, (at least until alpha firmware with IS dropped for it just now), actually did use gyroid as the default infill, not grid. So grid has not always been the default.

Posted by: @cipis

Cubic infill also passes already printed lines at the same level and actually creates even more issues for example with PETG (tearing). Grid is probably the most universal infill type at the moment. Gyroid infill is cool looking, but it prints slowly and creates huge g-code files. I am not saying we will use grid type as a default forever, but it will stay for now.

 

Posted : 19/09/2023 10:41 pm
J.Roberts
(@j-roberts)
Active Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Yes grid infill is an issue. I also witnessed audible collision noises using the default IS profile settings. That is not a good thing.

I posted macro shots of this issue. I also posted the relative settings I used to resolve it, which required slowing IS way down to avoid the issue. 

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/english-forum-original-prusa-i3-mk4-general-discussion-announcements-and-releases/grid-vs-gyroid/#post-669811

 

Posted by: @jseyfert3

More issues than grid? I find with input shaping that grid tends to hit the infill layer crossings with an audible bump.

While cubic has single layer crossings, unlike grid it is shifting sideways each layer. I find I still get audible bumps when the nozzle crosses but only at the layers where the cubic paths merge. All other layers even though it crosses there are no audible bumps, just smooth crossings.

In short, cubic doesn’t solve all issues of grid, but in my limited experience it reduces them, while maintaining lots of speed. I am mostly using cubic infill on my MK4 with IS.

Also, the MINI, (at least until alpha firmware with IS dropped for it just now), actually did use gyroid as the default infill, not grid. So grid has not always been the default.

Posted by: @cipis

Cubic infill also passes already printed lines at the same level and actually creates even more issues for example with PETG (tearing). Grid is probably the most universal infill type at the moment. Gyroid infill is cool looking, but it prints slowly and creates huge g-code files. I am not saying we will use grid type as a default forever, but it will stay for now.

 

 

Posted : 20/09/2023 7:45 pm
iftibashir
(@iftibashir)
Honorable Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Ive always used Gyroid - is that not better then grid infill anyways?

ORIGINAL PRUSA MK4 KIT - Full step-by-step video assembly guide!

>ORIGINAL PRUSA MINI+ Full video assembly guide!

Posted : 29/09/2023 7:44 am
iftibashir
(@iftibashir)
Honorable Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

From Prusa:

Grid:

This is one of the simplest and fastest variants of infill. Unlike rectilinear, it’s printed in both directions (rotated by 90°) in each layer. This way, material accumulates in spots where the paths cross. The grid infill is more solid (and has better layer adhesion) than the rectilinear infill, however, it sometimes can cause annoying noise or even a print failure due to the nozzle going over the crossings where material accumulates.

Gyroid:

The Gyroid is our favorite and one of the best infills. It’s one of the few 3D structures that provide great support in every direction. Plus it’s printed relatively fast, saves material, doesn’t cross itself at one layer and looks great. The special shape of this infill allows filling it with resin or another liquid.

It's 3 dimensional - giving it equal strength in all directionsIt can be printed fairly quicklyIt doesn't cross itself in the same layerIt has a good strength/weight ratioIt allows filling it with resin or another liquid

ORIGINAL PRUSA MK4 KIT - Full step-by-step video assembly guide!

>ORIGINAL PRUSA MINI+ Full video assembly guide!

Posted : 29/09/2023 7:52 am
Cipis
(@cipis)
Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

It's very slow to print compared to grid for example, it also produces very big g-code files, so it can take much more time to transfer via network, etc.

Posted by: @iftibashir

Ive always used Gyroid - is that not better then grid infill anyways?

 

Posted : 29/09/2023 9:39 am
Ian Harris
(@ian-harris)
Eminent Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Like iftisbashir, I usually use gyroid infill - maybe rectilinear infill might be better alternative than grid (if you don't want to use gyroid) as it looks to produce almost the same resulting infill, and the Prusaslicer page on infills says it doesn't accumulate material at crossings.

I don't know about size of gcode files with rectilinear infill, as against gyroid or grid infill.

Posted : 29/09/2023 10:32 am
Vextol
(@vextol)
Active Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

I just wanted to add that the problem for me gets much worse if you go down in size.  I've failed the last 6 prints I attempted, and it's always because the infill is a disaster.  

Y0u can see what's happening here.  Adhesion it great and I don't have any supports junking up anything but the infill is a train wreck.  I'm going to switch to gyroid on the next print even though it slows down considerably.

Oddly enough, I never saw this issue before updating to 5.0 / 2.6.1.  Was grid the default before?  I never checked in the alpha/beta versions honestly.

 

Posted : 09/10/2023 11:39 am
Cipis
(@cipis)
Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

@vextol What is the brand and print temperature of the filament on your photo?

Posted : 10/10/2023 8:26 pm
Zappes
(@zappes)
Estimable Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Wow, that looks nasty. I have only done a handful of prints on my Mk4 so far, but I never experienced anything like that with the default settings. I would say that there definitely is a problem, but I would be surprised if the infill pattern was the culprit here.

My models on Printables
Posted : 11/10/2023 8:51 am
PH1NB
(@ph1nb)
Active Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Aha, so that's what it is. I'm new in the world of 3D printing but noticed artefacts similar to mechanical abrasion in my freshly printed Magsafe holder. You even see some black marks which looks like the come from the residue on the nozzle hitting the print. MK4 in an enclosure with ventilation, Prusament PLA, all standard setting. 

Posted : 11/10/2023 3:32 pm
Zappes liked
Intveltr
(@intveltr)
Eminent Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Weird, for me it's the opposite: grid infill is fine on smaller prints, but on larger areas I can hear the nozzle bump over the lines. 

Posted : 11/10/2023 4:52 pm
Vextol
(@vextol)
Active Member
RE: MK4 IS profiles defaulting to grid infill is a mistake

Overture PETG Grey, Standard Prusa PETG setting.  This is like my 5th spool of the stuff and I never had a problem until the official IS came out haha.

@zappes no question it's infill related.  Pic attached. 

These are 4 separate prints: 

Grid - Grid - Rectilinear - Gyroid. 

They're different prints (kind of) printed at 0.15mm.  All required supports, relatively simple designs, single object on the sheet, everything kept default profile with exception of infill.

The outer walls are surprisingly well maintained and only the infill is a mess (except the gyroid).  Additionally, each of the first 3 prints was reprinted with Gyroid with no issues (the 4th is the actual reprint of the 3rd).

Posted : 11/10/2023 10:23 pm
Zappes liked
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