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Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?  

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JuanV
(@juanv)
Active Member
Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?

On the final release FW for IS in the MK4 here, we have this sentence:

Please note that the Input Shaper for Original Prusa XL (single and multi-tool) is part of a different development branch. Internal tests are underway, and a public testing release is expected very soon.

Currently assembling my MK4S. My upcoming 2 head XL will be my first CoreXY printer. As an educated guess... or maybe from beta testers, what kind of speed upgrades can we expect to see on the XL from without IS to with IS? Will it be similar to the MK4, or even higher given the CoreXY geometry?

Thanks,

Juan

Posted : 18/09/2023 5:03 pm
Artur5
(@artur5)
Reputable Member
RE:

Besides being a Core XY machine, the XL has a built in accelerometer. That would allow the user to customize input shaper parameters to their particular unit and setup (bench, table, enclosure etc.). Let’s hope that one of theses days (or months/years..) Prusa releases at last a XL firmware enabling IS and allowing the users to calibrate properly their machines by an option in the menu.

Totally different is the MK4, where Prusa decided to cut corners, not installing accelerometers and applying a fixed IS profile for all the machines, disregarding the fact that every unit is built slightly different and the benches where they sit can gave also vastly different resonances. Anybody having minimal experience with IS knows well that even slight modifications on the setup have noticeable effects on the resonances. The idea that ’one size fits them all’ is ridiculous and Prusa knows that well. If not, they wouldn’t say in the XL FAQs that accelerometers are vital for setting up IS.

In fact, speed capabilities depend solely on the mechanical design of the machine and have nothing to do with input shaper. You can print as fast whether if it's enabled or not. If properly customized, IS gives a better finish regarding ghosting and ringing when compared to a model printed at the same speeds without IS, but there isn’t a night and day difference. Depending on the model, you’ll have a hard time telling apart prints made with or without IS.

This post was modified 5 months ago 3 times by Artur5
Posted : 19/09/2023 9:11 am
Tobycwood liked
JuanV
(@juanv)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?

Thanks Artur, very interesting. I barely understand IS, have read some basic information but yes, Prusa's solution with the MK4 surprised me given what you explain. And I know the MK4 has an accelerometer port... how much was the cost of parts saved here? I can imagine minimal. I wonder what was the thought process in Prusa not to include a part that could have assured all the MK4 install base could use IS to the best possible with their printer and setup. That would have made the MK4 quite competitive in what is becoming a crowded market with quite competitive options for similar price. Or are they quite certain their current approach of 1 IS model fitting all will be good enough?

Will be interesting to see how this plays out! Me personally, happy to own both the MK4 and XL and looking forward testing this.

Posted : 19/09/2023 9:56 am
RobertCowanDIY
(@robertcowandiy)
Active Member
RE: Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?

Looking at this from a supply-chain perspective, my understanding is that they omitted the part because 'most' would have the same IS profile, so it's just wasted parts and one (or more) component to source and potentially halt production.  The part alone would only be a dollar or two max, but the saying in supply chain is "it only takes one part to stop production".

Posted : 19/09/2023 5:34 pm
tonyk liked
EvilleBill
(@evillebill)
Eminent Member
RE: Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?

Announcing (sometime in the future): New, Improved Original Prusa MK4S with accelerometer-based input-shaping.

Posted : 19/09/2023 6:34 pm
darksharpie
(@darksharpie)
Trusted Member
RE: Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?

Well now we know from the latest blog entry, that the input shaper firmware for the XL is due in October.  At least that will keep me from checking for it for the next 11 days or so 😉

Posted : 19/09/2023 11:49 pm
RobertCowanDIY
(@robertcowandiy)
Active Member
RE: Input Shaping on XL - speed increase vs MK4?

Unfortunately, that's only for the single tool machines.  Hopefully it won't take too long for the multi-tool machines.

Posted by: @darksharpie

Well now we know from the latest blog entry, that the input shaper firmware for the XL is due in October.  At least that will keep me from checking for it for the next 11 days or so 😉

 

Posted : 20/09/2023 12:10 am
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