Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread  

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

if it's going to be that much better, quieter, faster. i'll wait.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Those of us who have dealt with Prusa Research for some years will know that this situation was entirely predictable. Once I saw the new product hints appear from Josef I watched his Twitter and Facebook and the forums closely. I was fortunate enough to notice the release announcement within ten minutes and I ordered immediately before even watching the release video. Due to this I was lucky enough to receive my Mini before Christmas.

I was not so lucky in that the printer I received had a broken mainboard housing (packaging need a redesign in this area as several others have had the same issue), the main LCD control knob failed and seized while doing the first layer calibration (before the machine had even attempted its first print) and finally, after discovering how to bodge the broken LCD encoder enough to finish calibrating the printer (as the replacement part took ten days to ship to the UK due to the holiday season) I found that the printer had not been set up correctly from the factory and could not even complete the first test print. All in all quite a challenge to get to a working printer.

But as I say the situation was predictable going on past product releases. A few things I feel have to be repeated for the benefit of those new to 3d printing.

• 3d printing is relatively new technology and it is evolving almost daily.
• A 3d printer is a complex machine. It is a full CNC controlled manufacturing robot and requires understanding of the technologies involved, and mechanical and electrical abilities on behalf of the user to operate and maintain successfully. It is not a mature plug and play appliance like a dishwasher.
• Prusa Research are at the forefront of the 3d printing revolution and they push forward the boundaries constantly. A huge amount of the working printers out there are based upon the designs of Josef Prusa and others like him, and are only available because Josef subscribes fully to the open source movement. Prusa Research publish all of their designs and parts openly for others to use.
• Prusa Research are not a huge corporation. They are a small to medium sized business who produce complex products, the design and operation of which is under constant evolution even as they are attempting to manufacture and ship them across the globe.
• For a company of the size of Prusa a new printer is a major undertaking. Coupled with the continued success of the current product line, plus the black friday sale frenzy and the Christmas holiday season it is a wonder that any of the new Mini's shipped before the holidays and it is no surprise that the lead times have moved out considerably due to the depth of orders.
• Prusa Research are a young company who believe in what they produce and work hard to satisfy demand. There are no other companies in this field who are so open and responsive to customers, and who produce such outstanding machines at such accessible pricing.
• Being a customer of Prusa Research often requires patience and an appreciation of all of the above, and knowing that their enthusiasm for their products can often cause them to be overly optimistic on production and shipping schedules.

So there it is. The new Prusa Mini is not without it issues currently and due to its success obtaining one without a wait is not likely to be possible for some time. Complaining to the forums will not change any of that even though it perhaps makes you feel better.

But I now have a working Mini producing parts every bit as good as my Mk3S's and I am looking forward to the coming developments of this fascinating new printer. It was worth the wait and dealing with he issues to get it operational.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @milehigh3der

Posted by: @k9bub

I just spoke to PR chat and here is what they said:

 

Bart 13:17

your order should be shipped within 1-2 weeks, I am not able to give you exact shipping date at this moment

That really sucks.  I have a hard time seeing how they were able to surge so many and then go to so few.  I assumed that a lot of the ones from the first couple of days that weren't marked as shipped were a reporting issue. Maybe those are real.  Looking at the data, it would seem that the 14th was part of the initial surge.  If you are early in the 14th, does that mean that others on the 14th might be a month out?

I also would like to point out that I have not received any email notifications on order status.  Three months in and nothing- and missing the holidays for receipt.  That is HORRIBLE service.  Maybe their strategy is to make people search for the info.

If it wasn't for this community, I'd think that Prusa was running a Kickstarter scam.

You and me both. You said what I was thinking. In the beginning they shipped like crazy and now it seems its down to a trickle

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

I think I just found a solution that satisfies my craving for instant gratification and my desire to wait for the Mini... Someone locally was selling a MK3S and turns out they were selling to buy something that I had and was planning to sell. Might turn out to be a one-to-one trade and could have it by the weekend lol. That will make waiting for the Mini so much easier haha. Love when things work out so well while being so unlikely.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

It would be interesting to know what the supply situation would look like if they offered kits.  I know that they want to get out of the kit market and into schools and higher-end applications, but if it had come down to a kit before Christmas or a completed one in late January....

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @milehigh3der

I know that they want to get out of the kit market

Why is that? Too much support burden? I mean, there is a bit of additional logistics around packaging kits and providing instructions, but if every MK3S was sent assembled then I would assume that would increase the lead times (though they could always hire to compensate).

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @milehigh3der

I know that they want to get out of the kit market

Inside source or conjecture.  I have not heard this from JP, the blog, or any official source.  

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

I still do not fully understand why there are so many people upset or confused by this process. From the beginning on the announcement they stated that it would be a slow rollout. With the Mk3 it was a Slow rollout with the Mk2 it was a slow rollout. This is normal. The Printers are not "Late" as they said from the beginning the time it takes is entirely dependent on how many units were sold. If you were not prepared for this, then do not blame Prusa.

On a side note in response to @milehigh3der According to all official channels and many interviews with Josef himself. That statement is incorrect. They are an enthusiast company, not a company meant to provide industry equipment. The kits are their bread and butter.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @milehigh3der

It would be interesting to know what the supply situation would look like if they offered kits.  I know that they want to get out of the kit market and into schools and higher-end applications, but if it had come down to a kit before Christmas or a completed one in late January....

From more or less recent interviews, I got a feeling they want to occupy that sweet spot between Chinese fix-it-yourself 200-dollar kits and "we are serious business" Ultimakers and Tazes and Makerbots starting at 4500 dollars. They know this technology is still wearing diapers, but do their best to make it easier and simpler for anyone to start using the printer. The aim with MINI is to make feature-packed printer more affordable, bring it closer to home aplliance anyone can buy. Core audience is still enthusiasts interested in this technology, the fact that companies and institutions buy Prusa printers is mark of their quality and reliability (and good price/performance ratio). They offer higher tier of support and trainings for those, but do not try to position themselves only for that market (unlike other brands listed above). I don't see kits going away yet.

Edit: spelling

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

@crawlerin

This is spot on.  Even if Prusa moved away from kits, someone will step in to provide them.  

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Producing kits can take more time than assembled machines, and therefore more expensive to sell. But people think a kit should cost less than an assembled machine. Then there is support costs, not trivial. I could certainly see why it's not an attractive business model.

You either want to be at the high end and sell at a premium, or the low end and try to compete with the Chinese. Being in the middle is a difficult place. RepRapPro went out of business, LulzBot are struggling.

Anyway, I think not many people from the initial orders are updating the spreadsheet, but I see progress creeping towards the 14th! I guess maybe another 350 orders to ship before they reach mine. Fingers crossed it arrives before I have to find another job and I will be too busy to play with it 🙂

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @bobcousins

Producing kits can take more time than assembled machines, and therefore more expensive to sell. But people think a kit should cost less than an assembled machine. Then there is support costs, not trivial. I could certainly see why it's not an attractive business model.

You either want to be at the high end and sell at a premium, or the low end and try to compete with the Chinese. Being in the middle is a difficult place. RepRapPro went out of business, LulzBot are struggling.

Anyway, I think not many people from the initial orders are updating the spreadsheet, but I see progress creeping towards the 14th! I guess maybe another 350 orders to ship before they reach mine. Fingers crossed it arrives before I have to find another job and I will be too busy to play with it 🙂

This is a genuine question. How come that kits are more expensive than assembled models? There is little manual labour to put the items together, but you saving in assembly labour, shipping cost and assembly testing. I do understand the expense of supporting the users during assembly, but are there any metrics that it is that much offsetting the gains on the other sections?

As for what the future brings that is quite hard to predict. I think the mini is a right on the moving the focus in the right direction. Small footprint, quiet, and reliable with support that does not cost an arm and a leg. It is an ideal printer for both first starters, young enthusiasts without a big budget, or even  experienced engineers that need a family friendly printer at home without taking a lot of space.

I personally believe that the next 3d printing race will not be fought in features, but to accessibility reliability and ease of use. People can easily prototype in a reliable cheap printer and use professional printing/cnc services for the end product. LulzBot was a quality machine but without large enough community due to its price point and small availability outside of US, and RepRap was the right idea 10 years early.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

I was just told by chat that it would be 2 more weeks for my order placed October 14th. order #43299

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @minos197

This is a genuine question. How come that kits are more expensive than assembled models? There is little manual labour to put the items together,

You might think that, but how long does it take you to count out 10 M3x20mm screws, put them into a bag, label it? Then do that for dozens of other small parts. Taking a screw out of a bin, and putting it into an assembled product is about the same time, if not quicker.

Getting minimum wage to do tedious jobs that also need to be done accurately is a bug bear for all manufacturers. I have the chance to chat our manufacturing guys at work, and several aspects of manufacturing can be counter-intuitive. Their main goal is to get humans out of the loop as much as possible. Unfortunately, some jobs are difficult to automate at reasonable cost.

Industrial processes are designed for mass production and components designed for that, and that is why the mass produced stuff we buy is so cheap.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

If ypu really need to satisfy that crave for MINI, you can meanwhile try this:

I don't even... 🤣  for quarter of the price, probably quarter of the features but damn it looks adorable. 

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Have we seen any indications of shipments since the Christmas break? I’m wondering if they paused shipments to sort out some of the issues reported by those that have received theirs.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

Posted by: @bobcousins

Posted by: @minos197

This is a genuine question. How come that kits are more expensive than assembled models? There is little manual labour to put the items together,

You might think that, but how long does it take you to count out 10 M3x20mm screws, put them into a bag, label it? Then do that for dozens of other small parts. Taking a screw out of a bin, and putting it into an assembled product is about the same time, if not quicker.

Getting minimum wage to do tedious jobs that also need to be done accurately is a bug bear for all manufacturers. I have the chance to chat our manufacturing guys at work, and several aspects of manufacturing can be counter-intuitive. Their main goal is to get humans out of the loop as much as possible. Unfortunately, some jobs are difficult to automate at reasonable cost.

Industrial processes are designed for mass production and components designed for that, and that is why the mass produced stuff we buy is so cheap.

I disagree. For binning/bagging parts, there are automated scale systems that are *far* cheaper (and can readily be DIY-ed with the same level of acumen as they've shown in automating their PTFE cutting setup) than highly specialized automated systems for assembly. Many suppliers may even pre-bag them in a given quantity in advance if you order enough. Even if you do it manually, for larger quantities than can be readily eyeballed, you don't count out parts one by one, you do it by weight with a scale that has sufficiently accurate resolution. Toss on a handful of screws, add or take away items to get to a weight that corresponds to x items. If it was more or equally labor intensive to bag parts vs assemble, the Mk3S kit would not sell for 3/4 the price of an assembled printer.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

I decided to go ahead and cancel my mini order (placed oct 14) and informed the chat person that they should have their legal team review the FTC 16 CFR Part 435 rule Rule on Mail, Internet, or Telephone Orders. As they are clearly in violation. It is absolutely unacceptable that a refund also takes 14 days. 

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

So why don't all manufacturers sell a kit of parts for 75% of the price of an assembled product?

Of course, I was speaking generally. There is ongoing debate in the industry whether "kitting" or continuous feed assembly lines are better. Kiting lends to lean manufacturing, but there is a complex equation regarding the relative costs.

I believe the Mk3S was designed to be a kit, so obviously there is less cost advantage to preassembly than if it had been designed for mass production.

I can only think of one business that has a successful business model selling kits to consumers in a mainstream market.

RE: Unofficial Prusa Mini Wait Thread

I thought I could build a MK3S for less than buying a kit.  The parts cost me about $570 vs $749 for the kit.  

That is not a huge saving considering the lack of support.