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[New Mini+] Help! What happened here?  

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tanatos
(@tanatos)
Active Member
[New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

Hi, I have a new Mini+ for about 2 months, so far I only printed smaller /shorter prints and it always worked perfectly without any problems.

Yesterday I started a long PLA print (10+hours) of such extrusion bars from Printables (see attached pictures). 

When I woke up in the morning to check the print I saw something very strange. 

It looks like the printer skipped a few layers and then it printed the rest shifted about a centimeter to the right, how is this possible? I'm using the newest firmware, is it possible that it's a bug within the firmware update?

I appreciate any help

Thanks,

Jack

Posted : 08/01/2024 2:31 pm
_KaszpiR_
(@_kaszpir_)
Honorable Member
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

1. can you provide source gcode used?
2. what firmware /slicer versions?
3. does the bed is in the same position as it was? I once had situation that nozzle blocked on the model and everything shifted (that is the model + print plate moved few mm), but I could see that the print plate was not as it were in the beginning, that is not touching the screws which extrude from heat bed.
4. also I recommend fully formatting pendrive (not quick format)

See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.

Posted : 08/01/2024 9:41 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

The last thing I would suspect is the slicer... 

Not sure how to interpret the photos. Were the objects printed this way or (more likely) standing up?

I suspect this is a classic layer shift, which can be caused by several things. Could be loose grub screws (the tiny screws that hold the pulleys to the motor shafts. Could be looks belt, worth checking their tension. Could be the nozzle hitting infill, which is not uncommon for infill patterns that cross within a layer such as grid. Or it could have hit curling overhangs. These are probably the most common causes.

Posted : 08/01/2024 9:44 pm
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Illustrious Member

I started a long PLA print (10+hours) of such extrusion bars from Printables

10 hours in't really a long time for a bigger print ... Please provide a link to the Printables page - that doesn't look like a straightforward print.

Cheerio,

Posted : 09/01/2024 12:00 am
Razor liked
Razor
(@razor)
Estimable Member
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

Agreed, just finished a 23 hour print on mine. The Mini is a beast.

Stupid question but what’s the temperature of the room your printing? Since we’re in the middle of winter in the northern hemisphere is this printer in a room that’s cold?

Posted by: @diem

I started a long PLA print (10+hours) of such extrusion bars from Printables

10 hours in't really a long time for a bigger print ... Please provide a link to the Printables page - that doesn't look like a straightforward print.

Cheerio,

 

Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool

Posted : 09/01/2024 2:35 am
tanatos
(@tanatos)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

Thank you all for the answers so far!

@_KaszpiR_
1. extrusion.zip with .3mf and .bgcode files (based on https://www.printables.com/pl/model/856-prusa-mk3-mk3s-extrusions )
2. Firmware: 5.1.2+13478 / PrusaSlicer: 2.7.1+win64
3. The print is still attached to the bed, but thanks for that because you made me realise that the whole print sheet was moved slightly to the front, not sure how it's possible, could the extruder hit the print and overcome the magnetic forces which hold the plate? Could this be an input shaper bug? try the attached .bgcode on yours

@fuchsr
The objects were printed as you can see them, they are still attached to the print bed (not standing up). They wouldn't fit in upright position, so I've put them diagonally + i wanted to put the layers horizontally for increased strength.

@Razor
The room is heated, so I'd say it was about 17 degrees Celsius.

This post was modified 4 months ago by tanatos
Posted : 09/01/2024 6:29 am
tanatos
(@tanatos)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

Posted : 09/01/2024 6:42 am
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Illustrious Member

That is always going to be a testing print, the designer suggests they should be stood on end when adhesion is going to be problematic ... and as you suggest, interlayer adhesion will limit the strength.

The objects were printed as you can see them, they are still attached to the print bed (not standing up). They wouldn't fit in upright position, so I've put them diagonally

I don't see how you managed support, those long dropping overhangs will be very likely to warp which itself is likely to lift sections into the path of the extruder causing the sort of crash that results in layer shift ... and it looks like the longer piece had already warped off the bed before reaching overhang height.  Your 3MF file suggests that you merely allowed supports from the print bed only; nowhere near enough.  As it is the only orientation that might work is with each part balanced on a corner so that most of the awkward surfaces are at 45° but this too is going to be a warping nighmare.

What are you intending to use these for? You may manage the stiffness in PLA or a CF filament but it will not match aluminium.  You might be better to design a different profile more suited to FDM.

Cheerio,

Posted : 10/01/2024 2:04 am
_KaszpiR_
(@_kaszpir_)
Honorable Member
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

17 Celsius and such long object on the bed will cause warping issues, which causes model to bend with bed and thus the print head hot tip will scratch the surface and if the warp is significant then it will force move the bed especially in Y axis

I had the same issue recently with 160x160x2mm print (big flat plastic slab with full infill), and the room tem was around 20C, but the fact that printer stays in the window parapet and we just started to get -10C outside, thus cold air is pouring down the window and slides at the print bed. I literally saw how plastic was bending in front of my eyes on the plate and hit end scratched surface in the middle - but because print was slow and large the nozzle was hot enough to melt into the plastic so the plate stayed in place.

I added styrofoam walls around printer so the cold air does not go at it directly and bumped temperature to 22 in the room and no more issues.

See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.

Posted : 10/01/2024 7:02 am
Razor liked
Razor
(@razor)
Estimable Member
RE:

I believe it was your issue that led me down this path. 😁

Posted by: @_kaszpir_

17 Celsius and such long object on the bed will cause warping issues, which causes model to bend with bed and thus the print head hot tip will scratch the surface and if the warp is significant then it will force move the bed especially in Y axis

I had the same issue recently with 160x160x2mm print (big flat plastic slab with full infill), and the room tem was around 20C, but the fact that printer stays in the window parapet and we just started to get -10C outside, thus cold air is pouring down the window and slides at the print bed. I literally saw how plastic was bending in front of my eyes on the plate and hit end scratched surface in the middle - but because print was slow and large the nozzle was hot enough to melt into the plastic so the plate stayed in place.

I added styrofoam walls around printer so the cold air does not go at it directly and bumped temperature to 22 in the room and no more issues.

I see several good possibilities, but unless I’m missing it, no 3MF file. Can you zip it up and post it here for us to take a better look?

Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool

Posted : 10/01/2024 1:32 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

You are missing it, its the orange text link next to item 1.  It contains the 3mf and the bgode (which is pointless).  Only really need the 3mf.

Diem is absolutely correct.  Even if the lower half didnt warp the upper half is printing in mid air with zero support.  As the project is at the moment it is unprintable.
Grid support (the worst type), plus lots of other issues.

If I HAD to print it in the orientation it has now I would do the support with snug (project attached), with painted enforcer areas.  Although I also agree that I wouldn't print this, I'd just use aluminium extrusion.  Maybe if just sizing for a prototype but I would never use it for a real item.  Just not robust enough.

Posted : 10/01/2024 3:30 pm
tanatos
(@tanatos)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

Thank you all for help! I learned something thanks to this thread 🙂
I'm now printing Neophyl's file with custom supports and it's looking good so far.
BTW. do you advise against using binary gcode format? or just that it's not possible to inspect in the slicer?

As for the usage of this extrusion - it's what the 3d printing is for - testing and prototyping. I wouldn't print it with PET-G, but PLA is much more stiff, I want to experiment with it, if everybody thinks something can't be done, but it's tried anyway - that's usually where innovation is being done 😉

Posted : 11/01/2024 11:00 am
Razor
(@razor)
Estimable Member
RE: [New Mini+] Help! What happened here?

Yep, I missed it.  😄

Posted by: @neophyl

You are missing it, its the orange text link next to item 1.  It contains the 3mf and the bgode (which is pointless).  Only really need the 3mf.

Diem is absolutely correct.  Even if the lower half didnt warp the upper half is printing in mid air with zero support.  As the project is at the moment it is unprintable.
Grid support (the worst type), plus lots of other issues.

If I HAD to print it in the orientation it has now I would do the support with snug (project attached), with painted enforcer areas.  Although I also agree that I wouldn't print this, I'd just use aluminium extrusion.  Maybe if just sizing for a prototype but I would never use it for a real item.  Just not robust enough.

 

Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool

Posted : 12/01/2024 3:13 am
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