[Solved] MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?  

RE:

I would say the main benefit is steeper overhangs, meaning less supports needed when printing. 

Ignore the speed claims and HF nozzle etc - that's a little overhyped IMO, and it's recommended not to use it with the MMU3 anyways!

Main drawback is the large fan that's stuck in front of the nozzle now, so you can't clearly see what's being printed without having to bend down or get on your knees to see the nozzle. I really liked the 'open' design with the MK4. 

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

I agree with Ifti. Obviously it depends on what your typical prints look like. In my case, I went back to my Obxidian nozzles as I didn't see the CHF do much good for me and show little speed difference if any, and I prefer to use one nozzle that I never need to replace regardless of what material I print and that doesn't need a special profile. The LCD upgrade is purely cosmetic. The Y-axis upgrade is okay but I've never seen an issue with the tensioner. The electronics upgrade seem to be only useful for initial setup.

Now the fan upgrade… I suspect the new fan does give you better performance for overhangs—if you print many models with significant overhangs. In my hands, I found the old fan to be surprisingly good already, and also most models I print are my own designs so I can take care avoiding significant overhangs to start with. On the other hand, as I called it in another post, I consider the new fan design to be an abomination. The Mk4 fan holder was a beauty of industrial design. Out of the way, easy to swing aside to get access to the nozzle. The Mk4S fan holder is all that—not. To see what's going on while it's printing you have to kneel in front of your printer. Camera views are obstructed. Nozzle access is harder. And the looks—it feel like the second coming of Modern Brutalism—such as the Boston City Hall...

TL;DR: Probably a good upgrade if you frequently run into overhang issues. Otherwise a step back due to the fan holder design.

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

@iftibashir @foxrun3d. I appreciate your thoughts.  I cancelled my order for the 4s upgrade.  Will wait until further advancements.

Thanks

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

in my opinion its worth - new fan makes day to night difference in quality. GPIO board option is very handy. Every thing goes to what are you printing and from which material. If I would not print stuff from pla and petg i would sell my prusa crap and stick with voron only, I am very dissatisfiy with mk4.

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

Given how much the new air duct/shroud blocks the view, I'm thinking of getting one of those 3DO camera kits using something similar to this mount.

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

I'd say skip this upgrade. I just finished installing my mk4s / MMU3 upgrade and i am rather disappointed by it. Probably my fault, i did not read enough on the upgrade before ordering it. However i did contact prusa tech support to ask if it was compatible with my mmu3 and they said, sure, no problem at all, it will work just fine. They never mentioned the HF nozzle and mmu limitations!

The problem is that it does work indeed, but i get absolutely no speed benefits from it. There was all those speed claims everywhere on the prusa blog and even some external reviewer about speed boost with nice charts...but in the end, if you have an mmu and do not install the HF nozzle you just have no speed gain. And even if you install the HF nozzle, you seem to get speed benefits only from the 0.25 printing profile if i am to believe the prusaslicer for the "Structural" preset. 

The Speed preset might give you a boost at 0.20mm, i did not check.  I prefer quality, so i mainly use the structural preset.

I was too quick to accept the speed claims without doing my due diligence 🙁

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

Posted by: @rpgweb

I'd say skip this upgrade. I just finished installing my mk4s / MMU3 upgrade and i am rather disappointed by it. Probably my fault, i did not read enough on the upgrade before ordering it. However i did contact prusa tech support to ask if it was compatible with my mmu3 and they said, sure, no problem at all, it will work just fine. They never mentioned the HF nozzle and mmu limitations!

The problem is that it does work indeed, but i get absolutely no speed benefits from it. There was all those speed claims everywhere on the prusa blog and even some external reviewer about speed boost with nice charts...but in the end, if you have an mmu and do not install the HF nozzle you just have no speed gain. And even if you install the HF nozzle, you seem to get speed benefits only from the 0.25 printing profile if i am to believe the prusaslicer for the "Structural" preset. 

The Speed preset might give you a boost at 0.20mm, i did not check.  I prefer quality, so i mainly use the structural preset.

I was too quick to accept the speed claims without doing my due diligence 🙁

 

I havent noticed any speed gains from the HF nozzle on MK4s TBH. I have a MMU3 waiting to be built, and I have no issue going back to a standard nozzle at all. The only benefit I really see is the new fan shroud allowing steeper overhangs of up to 70% - even then, I preferred the 'open' design of the MK4....

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

For me the upgrade was great. I appreciate better cooling and higher speed. The thing is, you dont get any (or only small) benefits by using same layer height (e.g. 0,2). You have to use 0,25 or 0,28. I didnt compare actual profile settings. Only times of different layer heights on HF and nonHF profiles.

It seems like Prusa didnt want to crank up speed of printer to get the upgraded filament throughput. They simply (it seems to me) made layer higher (+ extruder faster) to reach new filament throughput speeds. On 0,25 I get almost everytime max (depends on filament, but usually around 24/25 mm3) througput. But if you dont want to use 0,25 layer height, I dont think new HF nozzle is for you.

Anyway, better cooling is great addon also with newer wifi module and nfc.

I compared only 0,4mm nozzle.

Now I use mainly 0,4mm HF nozzle and 0,25mm layer height. Thats ok for majority of my prints.

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

@Pepan - Since you are pleased with the upgrade, have you experienced any temp runaway issues?  Do you print with the sock attached?  There is a thread about this and was wondering what your experience/thoughts are about the sock.  

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

I used sock even on MK4, so I continued to use it also on MK4S and I dont run into any error so far (I only need to solve layer shifting with variable layer height - but thats maybe not related to mk4s - I used it first on mk4s).

I read earlier, sock can help with temperature stability, so I started to use it without much more thinking about it.

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

I know that I wasn't directly asked, but I also always use socks. I started on my MK3 (and used the wire core of twist-ties to hold the top of the sock closed on the E3D V6 style hotend). When I first built my MK4 I installed the sock before my pre-flight testing, had an issue with the initial heater calibration until I turned on the sock switch in the nextruder settings. Haven't had a problem with socks since. Then I discovered the Sock-X line (I think Levendigs is the origin of that brand) with the different colored socks. Now I have a nice collection, see my makes for the nextruder nozzle organizer and the nozzle sign/plate for Nextruder organizer.

My justification for using socks is to keep the part cooler fan from fighting with the nozzle heater, keep whisps of filament (especially stringy PETG) from getting on my heater block and burning and then dropping off into a print, and to color coordinate to my nozzles to my nozzle labels.

I just started using the Sock-X socks, and find them thicker and slightly stiffer than the official Prusa ones. But I don't know how long they will hold up yet.

RE: MK4s Upgrade Really Beneficial/Needed for MK4 with MMU3 Already Installed?

I ordered the upgrade immediately, because I want my printer to be as updated as possible. I did not modify the y-belt holder, because I’m satisfied with the old one (I’m using a modified belt tensioner). I think the new fan and the HCT nozzle is worth the upgrade. You can order just those as a spare part and get it cheaper - but who is looking always on savings??