RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Update on my tests of the fan mod: I have been printing with the MK4 practically nonstop since last Sunday evening. Only PLA so far, no failed prints, all printed via OctoPrint with the Arc-Welder plugin, all files created with the most recent PrusaSlicer and the IS structural profile. To move my tests up to higher temperatures, I have started the first print with PETG. Ambient temp in the room is 26.8 °C, temp inside the closed enclosure is 35.1 °C after one hour of print time. See screenshot for the temp values from OctoPrint. You might have to click on the image to see it without cropping.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Another update, this time for printing with Prusa PC-Blend CF at 285 °C. Room ambient is at about 27 °C, temp inside the closed enclosure has reached about 37 °C after one hour of printing time. The xBuddy board shows about 60 °C now. Still no failed prints, printing gcode created with IS structural profile, processed throught the Arc-Welder plugin in OctoPrint and printing via OctoPrint.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Interesting that you're still not hitting your previous high enclosure temperature of 43C. Certainly looks good for the xBuddy Board, though.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Well, heatwave on command, that would be worth something, I guess ... 🙂
Next week perhaps ...
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Hello could you maybe share the stl file?
Greetings Leon
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
You mean for the fan cover? Sure, I was planning to upload this on printables after I tested this for some time. Still no printer crashes, reboots, funny screens or failed prints with it. But here you go, see attachment, I hope this works.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
When you upload to printables, can you please include a step file?
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
I will upload the project file from Fusion 360, but I can also include an export to step if that is still possible with the free license.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
That would be fantastic. STEP is nearly universally readable by every cad package, and MUCH easier to work with than stl files.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
I just got them from my laptop.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
I would like to print that, but i can access that file (AccessDenied) any chance you could help?
Thanks!
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Sorry for late reply, I was offline for some time. I had not checked if the attached files did indeed work. The whole attach media or files business in the forum seems to be royally something something.
In the meantime I have uploaded the project to Prusaprinters: Cover for Adding an 80 mm Noctua Fan to the MK4 Electronics Box
I have checked the link in the message preview and it seems to work.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
No worries,
and thank you very much for uploading thar print 👍
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
...
So, was thermal pad problems ever ruled out as a cause here? I see no thermal pads in this picture and it is never mentioned in the thread by OP as far as i can Ctrl+F. I'm running 65-75C board temps (depending on PLA/PETG) on my MK4 with no issues so far, inside an enclosure 35-45C "enclosure ambient". I'm aware that it is a bit high, yes, but no issues so far since 2020 (MK3s) and July 2023 (Mk4) and I'm planning on trying to add a bigger fan, without adding draft around the bed.
Is a fan mod for the board really needed? Did you contact Prusa support about this issue to get their thoughts on the problem?
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
So, was thermal pad problems ever ruled out as a cause here? I see no thermal pads in this picture and it is never mentioned in the thread by OP as far as i can Ctrl+F. I'm running 65-75C board temps (depending on PLA/PETG) on my MK4 with no issues so far, inside an enclosure 35-45C "enclosure ambient". I'm aware that it is a bit high, yes, but no issues so far since 2020 (MK3s) and July 2023 (Mk4) and I'm planning on trying to add a bigger fan, without adding draft around the bed.
Is a fan mod for the board really needed? Did you contact Prusa support about this issue to get their thoughts on the problem?
I don't know for certain if it was the cause. I just can say from my experience that the problems I had with the printer before were gone after adding the fan to the electronics case.
The thermal pads are not visible because I had already removed them from the back of the board when I took the photos.
If you do not have the same problem on your printer, be happy and continue printing. If it ain't broken don't fix it! 🙂
I had exchanged a few mails with Prusa Support about the error screens I had before my "fix". I also mentioned that I used the printer with OctoPrint which was not really supported at that time. So they said I should try printing from USB which I then tried but that did not eliminate the problems. I still had failed prints, reboots of the printer and error screens like before when I used OctoPrint. So I watched the sensor values when the problem was occurring and concluded that the temperature of the board caused by the hot print bed when printing with 100 °C to 110 °C (ASA/ABS/PCCF) could be the cause. You can see the temperature values of the sensor on the board rise when the heated bed reaches those temperatures. The heated bed is right next to the back wall of the electronics case and there are heat conductive pads between that back wall and the board (which reaches "only" 70 °C). I don't think that under those conditions any heat is transported away from the board to the back wall by these pads but rather the other way round (2nd law of thermodynamics etc.). I decided to try find a fix on my own and it seems that it worked on my printer.
I can't say if it is needed on every MK4 but it worked on my printer and at that point I did not care about the thoughts of Prusa Support on the problem.
RE:
Sure, I understand what you mean, if your fix works for you then it works. I was more concerned if you had a defective board or not, and that is something that I would be concerned about myself as I bought the MK4 having trust in Prusa to give me reliable prints, just as they did with the MK3. And this fix is (in my opinion) adding uncertainty to it as it would be a workaround rather than a fix, if the board actually is defective. I'm sure they would send you a replacement board if that was the case. I have had replacement parts sent to me under warranty for my MK3, the support have been great.
But this is just me and this thread got me concerned, even though I don't have any problems (yet) but my enclosure temps are on the high side. What was your peak temperature reading of the board sensor? The problem may be in another component where the sensor is not located, the board contains many components for sure.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
Look, I really don't want to rehash another time what I have already written earlier in this thread. But here you (or I) go: Fact is that Jo Prusa himself mentioned in a Q&A session in one of the Prusa Live or Prusa Podcast clips after the release of the MK4 (can't remember exactly which one) when he was asked about the temp limits for the electronics inside the Original Prusa Enclosure for both the MK3S+ and the MK4 that the MK3S+ can stand some degrees more than the MK4. Also when you look at the design the electronics cases on both printers you can see that this makes some sense. The MK3S+ has the board inside a plastic box on the side facing away from the heated bed, the MK4 has the board inside a metal box with the board facing toward the heated bed and additionally with heat conductive pads between box wall and board. Guess which one is more affected by the heat of the heated bed?
I tested the same high temp print jobs with ASA and/or PCCF on both printers (both in their own Original Prusa Enclosure, next to each other on the same table) with the same ambient temperature in the room. This was during a heat wave in the summer. The room with my printers is under the roof in my house and gets very hot on a sunny day, during that period it was over 45 °C (that's 113 °F) ambient temp in the room. The board (before adding the fan to the case) reached over 70 °C (that's about 160 °F) before the error screen on the printer. The MK3S+ never had any problem with this and kept chugging along happily, the MK4 had the occasional error screen/reboot with a failed print, annoying me to no end. When I brought this problem up in the forum there were some other people who had reboots with their MK4 printer.
Before the upgrade kit for the MK3S+ to MK4 was available, I had one on pre-order. When I saw that with the price for the upgrade I would not gain another reliable printer, but in fact would lose one, I cancelled my order for the upgrade kit. I have had my MK3S+ since mid-2020 and I won't need all the fingers of one hand to count off the failed prints it gave me because of the MK3S+ rebooting on me mid-print, giving me an error screen or the like. The count for the MK4 is definitely in the double digits and for a much shorter time of use.
Long story short: I have found a solution that works for me. With all the modifications I have done I am sure that I have left spec and warranty territory and I don't want to haggle with them. The printer is working now. I will leave well enough alone. And lastly the printer is still not as reliable as my MK3S+. It still has firmware problems that lead to the occasional error screen because some serial interface idle problem. This is known on github and not heat related, also much less frequent. I hope this will be fixed with one of the next firmware revisions.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
@Walter how did you put together the noctua fan connectors ? Last year I was researching a bit trying to buy those new connectors but ultimately failed.
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
@Walter: This came just at the right time. I'm experiencing mainboard overheating when printing Nylon in the enclosure, and I found this post just when I was considering designing a new electronics box cover with a fan mount... One thing less I have to do in FreeCAD now. 🙂 Luckily, I have a Noctua 80mm on the shelf, so the printer is creating your model from PC Blend CF right now. 🙂
First tests will be without heatsinks (just ordered some), but anything is probably better than the original design...
RE: Possible overheating of the MK4 electronics case inside an enclosure with summer temperatures?
I used these connectors: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005183639301.html
The wiring scheme of the fans can be found here: https://faqs.noctua.at/de/support/solutions/articles/101000081757-welche-pin-belegung-verwenden-noctua-produkte-