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"quick swap" nozzles  

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SR
 SR
(@sr)
Member
"quick swap" nozzles

i purchased an mk4 as an upgrade to the prusa mini, and am disappointed by the quick swap nozzle process. First of all, the official instructions do not show a process that is quick at all, although it sounds like it is "okish" to keep the wiring in place while you swap nozzles. So I now have to instruct 6 users to not follow the official instructions...

Moreover, since you have to unload filament to perform a cold nozzle swap, the process flow makes no sense. Users finish a print, take their part off, and the machine cools. The next user arrives, and if they want to change nozzles, they first need to heat the nozzle to unload the filament, then wait for it to cool to "quick swap" nozzles?

There is apparently a g-code fix for this issue that some Revo hotend users have run, but i am not sure the right retraction distance to use for the mk4 to ensure the nozzle is detached from the filament, but without fully removing the filament from the extruder. Moreover, I do not at all like the prospect of asking all my users to run custom g-code, and it only takes 1 user not running the custom g-code to ruin the cold swap process for everyone else.

We are trying to understand why this isn't natively supported in the software, and why the mk4 is continually advertised with "quick swap" nozzles when the process is in fact far slower than the much cheaper Mini, particularly when you follow the official instructions. 

Posted : 20/10/2023 5:54 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

Not disagreeing with anything you said, just confirming that swapping the nozzle without removing the wiring by holding the heater block in place with the universal wrench is I think at least as fast as and less like to lead to damage to the wires than the official instructions. And with the new hotend design and fan placement, getting the wrench in is in much easier than with the Mk3S and not slower than the Mini. I've tried the "official" way a few times but I found it to be more awkward, and on my XL I ended up with a broken thermistor wire trying to push it through the channel behind the hotend.

Posted : 20/10/2023 8:16 pm
Boomershooter05
(@boomershooter05)
New Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

I've found the the fastest swap is using the adapter with a V6 nozzle. I run the Microswiss V6 CM2.

It's the best of both worlds with a copper body and a hardened tip, so you don't have to change out for CF. I just hold the block with a wrench, loosen the nozzle, remove and replace, hot torque the nozzle, double check the thumb screws and done. No messing with routing wires.

Posted : 21/01/2024 10:49 pm
Todd
 Todd
(@todd-3)
Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

Is there any disadvantage to using a hardened nozzle all the time, rather than switching from brass to hardened steel depending on material used?

Posted : 23/01/2024 5:14 am
Fallon
(@fallon)
Eminent Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

Hardened nozzles historically transfer heat a lot worse than brass. You usually needed to increase temps a bit to compensate. But then you run into problems when it's not extruding because the temps are a bit high. My old NozzleX was annoying. I'd planned to just leave it in all the time, 1 nozzle to rule them all. But it delivered inconsistent results compared to brass on plain PLA & PETG. I went back to brass & avoided abrasive filaments.

I hear Tungsten nozzles are thermally similar to brass & obviously hardened.

The new hardened nozzles have a brass tube for good heat conduction & only a hardened tip. Olsen Ruby, E3D ObXidian, & the Diamondback are all like this. The diamond tip on the DiamondBack is actually a lot more thermally conductive than the brass. I have a ObXidian coming for the XL & will see if I can just leave it in all the time. Finding a Nextruder ObXidian in stock on Prusa took a while, but they do come in & out of stock. I'm eyeing up the DiamondBack as a forever nozzle with no compromises, but $100 for a nozzle is hard to swallow, even worse if I think about equipping all 5 heads on the XL. Also they are a few months out from a Nextruder compatible DiamondBack unless you use a v6 adapter.

 

https://www.championx.com/products-and-solutions/drilling-technologies/diamondback-nozzles/

https://e3d-online.com/products/revo-obxidian-nozzles

Posted by: @todd-4

Is there any disadvantage to using a hardened nozzle all the time, rather than switching from brass to hardened steel depending on material used?

 

Posted : 23/01/2024 11:20 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

After my failed attempts to use tungsten carbide nozzles with the nozzle adaptor I now have obxidian nozzles on my XL and Mk4 printers. I leave them in all the time regardless of what material I'm printing. Still not a fan of the new design. Wish I could use the dragon hotends I have in my minis and mk3s. 

Posted : 24/01/2024 12:14 am
Zappes
(@zappes)
Estimable Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

Did you have to recalibrate your printing temperatures when using the Obxidian? Or is it a simple drop-in replacement for the standard nozzle?

My models on Printables
Posted : 24/01/2024 10:17 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

To date, I have not had to do this.  About 6 weeks of printing.  

Posted by: @zappes

Did you have to recalibrate your printing temperatures when using the Obxidian? Or is it a simple drop-in replacement for the standard nozzle?

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 24/01/2024 11:35 am
Zappes liked
Zappes
(@zappes)
Estimable Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

That sounds promising. My Obxidian will be delivered next week, and I was afraid that I'd have to print all those temp towers again... 🙂

My models on Printables
Posted : 24/01/2024 11:39 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

Same here. One reason I like tungsten carbide is that—unlike hardened steel—there's no need to adjust any profiles. Same is true for the Obxidian nozzle, at least in my hands.

Posted : 24/01/2024 1:58 pm
Zappes liked
Sembazuru
(@sembazuru)
Prominent Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

 

Posted by: @fuchsr

After my failed attempts to use tungsten carbide nozzles with the nozzle adaptor I now have obxidian nozzles on my XL and Mk4 printers. I leave them in all the time regardless of what material I'm printing. Still not a fan of the new design. Wish I could use the dragon hotends I have in my minis and mk3s. 

I'd be interested to hear what your failures were using a tungsten carbide (WC) nozzle with the nozzle adapter. I have some WC nozzles that I used on my MK3, but haven't tried using them yet.

I know of one potential failure mode would be that the WC nozzle gets loose over multiple (don't know how many) temperature cycles because of the aluminum heat block. I lucked out and had already upgraded my MK3 heat block to a plated copper one before I started using WC nozzles. But I haven't seen anyone offering a plated copper heat block for the Nextruder, and even if one did I wouldn't know how to re-tune input shaping for the heavier heat block. And this is the main reason why I haven't tried my WC nozzles on my MK4 yet.

I'm curious if there are other issues using a WC nozzle with the nozzle adapter and stock aluminum heat block that I don't know about yet.

See my (limited) designs on:
Printables - https://www.printables.com/@Sembazuru
Thingiverse - https://www.thingiverse.com/Sembazuru/designs

Posted : 29/01/2024 9:22 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

Exactly what you wrote. On my Mk3s and Minis I run Dragon hotends that have plated copper heater blocks. Never had one leak with TC in years, with relatively frequent nozzle swaps. The Mk4 is aluminum, net result, arguably the most impressive blob of death on my XL I've ever seen on any machine...

Posted : 29/01/2024 10:21 pm
Kevin Ladd
(@kevin-ladd)
New Member
RE: "quick swap" nozzles

I too have had a blob of death like I have never seen - and it damaged my hot end.  It was so large that no amount of heat would set it free and it ruined the thermistor cable.  Lack of stock anywhere means a down machine for who knows how long...

Posted by: @fuchsr

Exactly what you wrote. On my Mk3s and Minis I run Dragon hotends that have plated copper heater blocks. Never had one leak with TC in years, with relatively frequent nozzle swaps. The Mk4 is aluminum, net result, arguably the most impressive blob of death on my XL I've ever seen on any machine...

 

Posted : 31/01/2024 11:59 am
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