RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
The Carbon Rods combined with bushings sliding on these Rods without Lubrication will kill all Bambu printers.
RE:
The Carbon Rods combined with bushings sliding on these Rods without Lubrication will kill all Bambu printers.
I think this is a fair point. Components on the Prusa are tried and tested, over many years, and are proven to work. Components on the Bambu, even though I applaud them for thinking outside the box and bringing something new and innovative to the table, is yet to be proven.
I think I'd go MK4 for now, and let the Bambu prove itself over time before I'd consider dipping my toes in that pond.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
The Carbon Rods combined with bushings sliding on these Rods without Lubrication will kill all Bambu printers.
I think this is a fair point. Components on the Prusa are tried and tested, over many years, and are proven to work. Components on the Bambu, even though I applaud them for thinking outside the box and bringing something new and innovative to the table, is yet to be proven.
I think I'd go MK4 for now, and let the Bambu prove itself over time before I'd consider dipping my toes in that pond.
I think the bigger concern is the fact that those carbon rods are literally glued in with epoxy and are not a user replaceable part. The bushings too, for that matter. You can't buy rods nor bushings, there are no instructions on how to replace them once they scratch up, start binding or anything else. Those consumable parts are, according to Bambu, not user serviceable and you need to send the entire printer to them if you want them serviced. I predict a lot of these machines will need to be replaced by a new shiny model after warranty runs out due to issues like that.
RE:
I appreciate opinions so hopefully you will allow me to state mine. Where is the proof that the "Carbon rods without lubrication" is going to kill all the Bambu printers? Was this validated in a test somewhere? Would you mind sharing? I am not saying the Bambu printers are superior to the Prusa or vice versa. There is a lot of truth in the many years of development and testing Prusa has put into their ecosystem. But, innovation drives change. Prusa has been stagnant in that regard for a few years now. Along comes Bambu with some interesting, unusual, maybe even gimmicky technology. While you may not agree with their technical decisions or their thought design, we cannot deny that they have made some interesting claims and have altered the space.
I own 2 Artillerys, 2 MK3s, and 1 Bambu Lab X1c. I have 1000s of hours of printing across all machines and I see strengths and weaknesses with each of them. I will say, however, that each company has a starting point. What will matter, to all of us, is when new technologies hit the market, are they sustainable and useable by the purchasers and users of their products? Remember, not even Prusa has done everything right! (i.e. MMU2s).
Hope we can continue to dialogue.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
I appreciate opinions so hopefully you will allow me to state mine. Where is the proof that the "Carbon rods without lubrication" is going to kill all the Bambu printers? Was this validated in a test somewhere? Would you mind sharing? I am not saying the Bambu printers are superior to the Prusa or vice versa. There is a lot of truth in the many years of development and testing Prusa has put into their ecosystem. But, innovation drives change. Prusa has been stagnant in that regard for a few years now. Along comes Bambu with some interesting, unusual, maybe even gimmicky technology. While you may not agree with their technical decisions or their thought design, we cannot deny that they have made some interesting claims and have altered the space.
I own 2 Artillerys, 2 MK3s, and 1 Bambu Lab X1c. I have 1000s of hours of printing across all machines and I see strengths and weaknesses with each of them. I will say, however, that each company has a starting point. What will matter, to all of us, is when new technologies hit the market, are they sustainable and useable by the purchasers and users of their products? Remember, not even Prusa has done everything right! (i.e. MMU2s).
Hope we can continue to dialogue.
Technically he’s quite correct. They won’t run forever. What is of greater importance is the timeframe of failure. Personally, I don’t consider that issue to be of highest concern. For me it’s the wide range of other non-user-serviceable things that can go wrong or wear out that worries me.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
MK4 price competitive when choosing kit option. Which would be the better choice over time?
Bambu Lab P1P 3D Printer$699.00. VS. Original Prusa MK4 kit - $799, fully assembled $1099
Bambu Lab X1-Carbon Combo 3D Printer — $1,449.00 USD
VS
Original Prusa MK4 kit - $799; Original Prusa MMU3 - $299; Original Prusa Enclosure - $349; Prusa hardened nozzle - approx $35?
Total — $1482 kit or $1782 fully assembled
The Bambulab P1P has a very strange design decission when it comes to max bed temperature. It is only 100°C and I am not entirely sure why. This can be sufficient but it is actually rather borderline for some more advanced materials. I am not sure if that even means 100°C is ok or if you should rather stay below 95°C then. If you want to print such advanced materials you should go straight to the X1 or in fact have a look at the MK4. For such materials you will also want to have an enclosure so either buy a X1 or an MK4 with some kind of enclosure (self made enclosures or 3rd party enclosures can be a bit cheaper than the official one). It has to be said though that CoreXY printers will have an edge here as the enclosure can be considerably more compact and therefore enclosure temperatures higher, which leads to considerable improvements in print quality with ABS for example (better layer adhesion, less warping).
Overall, if you put it like that, the comparisons look quite spot on. The Bambulab is faster, but I would assume that stock print quality on the Mk4 is better as print profiles are optimized for quality not for speed and for the Bambulab it is more the other way round (highest speed at still acceptable quality).
The big question mark is reliability and long term support and operationability. Bambulab is still a young company so there is a risk in that regard. With Prusa I think you can be fairly sure to get a very long lasting product which will be servicable for many years to come even if something were to happen to Prusa.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE:
I appreciate opinions so hopefully you will allow me to state mine. Where is the proof that the "Carbon rods without lubrication" is going to kill all the Bambu printers? Was this validated in a test somewhere? Would you mind sharing? I am not saying the Bambu printers are superior to the Prusa or vice versa. There is a lot of truth in the many years of development and testing Prusa has put into their ecosystem. But, innovation drives change. Prusa has been stagnant in that regard for a few years now. Along comes Bambu with some interesting, unusual, maybe even gimmicky technology. While you may not agree with their technical decisions or their thought design, we cannot deny that they have made some interesting claims and have altered the space.
I own 2 Artillerys, 2 MK3s, and 1 Bambu Lab X1c. I have 1000s of hours of printing across all machines and I see strengths and weaknesses with each of them. I will say, however, that each company has a starting point. What will matter, to all of us, is when new technologies hit the market, are they sustainable and useable by the purchasers and users of their products? Remember, not even Prusa has done everything right! (i.e. MMU2s).
Hope we can continue to dialogue.
With new ideas I usually like to see something proven to last, rather than assuming something to last until proven not to last in validated tests. I am not as demanding here either, I am already happy with some non-validated tests showing factual evidence for robustness of that new approach.
In general, however, I prefer designs which foresee easy replacement or servicability at home for parts which are exposed to high mechanical tear or stress, that includes all kinds of rods with bearings moving rapidly up and down during printing.
But that is just the way I see it you are of course entitled to your own views on that.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
From a newbie perspective, I bought a preassembled mk3
I had never been able to print something else than PLA, and even the first layer of PLA was a big pain for some pieces.
X1 carbon has been a game changer and I'm now able to print all materials with a perfect first layer with basic settings and knowledges.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
I have a MK3S + MMU2 and I have not been able to use the mmu2 properly with the mk3s. maybe too much figuring out on my side, maybe I am not patient enough. Right know I think about what my choices are, wether to buy a (preassembled) mk4 and wait for mmu3 or by from bambu labs. I prefer Open Source and good support, but I also would like to have hassle-free filament-changes. I even thought about a palette pro instead of mmu2/3, but have no experience with that.
Right now I prefer mk4 with a good(!) way of storing multiple filament and change it automatically. Like using ASM from bambu on the mk4. I guess this won't work, but it would be a dream 😉
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
@Sphox
Could be a lot of things, possibly you had troubles with the first layer calibration on the Prusa. That is something you don't have to bother on a Bambulab as it is fully automatic, if I am not mistaken. But the same is the case on the Mk4 now.
That said, while it is an obstacle for beginners, once you figured out first layer calibration it is not such a big deal anymore.
I have a MK3S + MMU2 and I have not been able to use the mmu2 properly with the mk3s. maybe too much figuring out on my side, maybe I am not patient enough. Right know I think about what my choices are, wether to buy a (preassembled) mk4 and wait for mmu3 or by from bambu labs. I prefer Open Source and good support, but I also would like to have hassle-free filament-changes. I even thought about a palette pro instead of mmu2/3, but have no experience with that.
Right now I prefer mk4 with a good(!) way of storing multiple filament and change it automatically. Like using ASM from bambu on the mk4. I guess this won't work, but it would be a dream 😉
I don't have first hand experience with the AMS, heard mixed reports in the beginning but some seem to think it works just fine. I am a bit skeptical as it is based on a similar principle as the MMU. The MMU2s has a big problem and that is its lack of communication with the printer. Therefore error messages are not clearly communicated and cryptic. That should get a lot better with the MMU3. However I'd still advise against it if you want to have a completely hassle free, unbox and print experience.
I have no first hand experience with the Palette either but also there I have heard mixed stories. I think that is a common denominator among all single nozzle filament changer systems.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE:
I received my AMS unit in December with my X1C. I have purchased an additional and now run two AMS units with 8 filaments. I run Bambu, Prusament, eSun, and Hatchbox filament. I have printed both as a single color and multi-color project. I know there were issues with the first first series but I have had ZERO issues with my units.
I also own both the Palette 2s PRO and Palette 3s PRO. The idea is solid, the systems are well built and work without flaw (for me). But, since I transitioned to the X1C, my palettes are packed away looking for a new home 😀
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
Lets not forget that Bamboo hardware is extremely proprietary...
A very good match-up indeed. Comparing the tech in each printer, I call it a draw. Both have automatic first layer calibration, decent build volume, and great print quality. I like the quick swap nozzles, better printer bed sheets, and open source parts of the Prusa. And the Bambu Lab printers have the edge in speed, Corexy, and provided enclosure -- for the X1.
Prusa gave current Prusa owners a real reason to stay with Prusa when considering a printer between $700-$1100. And Bambu has a long way to go to begin to compete with the Prusa customer service and user community.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
I have a Bambu X1C with AMS. It is a fantastic machine with multiple sensors that make printing fairly easy. I have an MK3S+ which for the most part just keeps on running but does require a bit of care to get consistent first layers.
BUT I have had a problem with the heat bed heating properly on the Bambu and trying to fix it is a big challenge. The device needs to be partially disassembled with over 40! screws removed to get to the heat bed. It is hard to work on and I am not too sure that the part that Bambu is sending will fix it. So with complexity comes more things that can go wrong and fixing them is not very easy on the Bambu. Food for thought.
RE:
I have a Bambu X1C with AMS. It is a fantastic machine with multiple sensors that make printing fairly easy. I have an MK3S+ which for the most part just keeps on running but does require a bit of care to get consistent first layers.
BUT I have had a problem with the heat bed heating properly on the Bambu and trying to fix it is a big challenge. The device needs to be partially disassembled with over 40! screws removed to get to the heat bed. It is hard to work on and I am not too sure that the part that Bambu is sending will fix it. So with complexity comes more things that can go wrong and fixing them is not very easy on the Bambu. Food for thought.
I don't think complexity is the issue. The Bambu is designed to make the most use of modern fabrication methods - welded steel frame, epoxied rods, injection molded parts, and so forth. It is however not designed to be modified or, in many cases, repaired.
A machine that is intended to be repaired using more maker-friendly fabrication methods - extrusions, accessible components, etc, may be equally complex, but will likely also be more expensive.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
For me things are changing rapidly at the moment. Just watched an unboxing of the Qidi X-Plus 3 - brand new thing. Fast printing as well. From the looks and behaviour pretty similar to the X1/P1P. BUT (the big BUT), Qidi support way more reliable and fast. And the X-Max 3 coming as well...
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
Had a Qidi X max. OK machine but fairly basic. Used a card to set the distance for the first layer.
Very responsive service with Qidi. The Bambu is much more sophisticated with a wide range of sensors and self setting the first layer. Bambu has moderately decent on line info about service and maintainence but it is not complete yet. Bambu's machines from what I see on the Qidi website are still significantly more sophisticated than Qidi's offerings. Bambu's service is not as responsive as Qidi's service. Since there is no place that fixes these machines having helpful service is important.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
I think with Bambulab the model is moving more towards a traditional home appliance business case. Things that are not designed for easy repairability but great performance with a rich feature set, at the most competitive pricepoint possible. Compromises have to be made for that. Maybe that is the future as 3D printing is going more mainstream.
Maybe the market will split with a certain customer base sticking to machines where repairability and modability is at their core, ready to pay a bit more for them. Maybe it will be even split into more parts. Prusa combines very low entry obstacles with high repairability and modability. A Voron and similar printers are even better regarding modding and combine it with better performance but they do involve more know how to build, even if good Voron kits have become fairly straight forward too, nowadays.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
Unfortunately at the consumer level, equipment that is designed to minimize cost of manufacture at the expense of useful life and repairability, tends to run equipment that is designed for long service life and repairability out of the market, based mostly on price. Maybe things will turn out differently for consumer/hobby level 3d printers, but I don't think that is the way to bet.
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
I was tempted to ditch my MK3S+ and move to Bambu as I just wanted to print with ease. Im not a tinkerer etc - I just want to send my model across and print.
Fortunately Ive had zero issues with my MK3S+. I hated the first layer calibration stuff, but once done, I've not been back to it and all my models have been fine. However, I have been scared to try PETG even though I have a roll of it, and even though I have the textured sheet, just because I know I have to recalibrate the Z axis all over again, and the way PETG can yield different results while printing - blobs etc. Hence why I considered the Bambo instead.....
Now that the MK4 has auto calibration, that's a big deal for me. I'm now looking to replace my printer with the MK4, and I will be happy to try the textured sheet with PETG now, knowing I can just change filament and sheet, and let the printer re-calibrate and just do its thing - at least that's how I think it works?? As long as I select the correct filament in the slicer, the printer should do the rest?
RE: Prusa MK4 vs Bambu?
The vast majority of consumers want something that just works, with plug & play functionality.
Hobbyists want the ability to tinker, upgrade and improve; they value user-serviceability and replacement parts much, much more highly.
Clearly 3D printing is still in that hobbyist phase, but I wonder whether it will remain there or will make the jump to mainstream. 3D printing is not even close to mainstream yet, but Bambu Labs are taking it further in that direction than Prusa.
As for issues with parts wearing out, I suspect that if Bambu Labs had issues in that regard we'd have heard about them by now. Will the machine keep going for 5+ years? Probably not, but I bet what we have in 5 years time will look more like an X1 than a Mk4.