MK4 VS XL
Hi,
I know the XL is bigger ofcourse. And I have understood that the XL has larger motors, but are there things that are better in MK4 vs XL. I am thinking about a upgrade of my MK3s. The XL is more expensive. But if it is as good as MK4 but almost 4x print volume - and possiblity for MMU by having extra toolheads - than it is compelling.
But I'm not sure what the real differences are here (except ofcourse the size) I am a bit afraid that the XL is more a nische product and therefore less upgrades, less posibilites in the future. But I believe they both will be supported for a long time from Prusa.
RE:
The XL is not necessarily bigger. Sure it's got a bigger Z axis, but for less money you can get two MK4s for increase X and Y build volume.
That said, the XL is CoreXY, it should be far more rugged and require less maintenance. In my opinion it's really not suitable for makers unless you just don't care about money 🙂 Better for production and prototyping environments. Again, just my opinions here so going to leave it at that before the trolls bite my head off 😀
RE: MK4 VS XL
Many new features (like Nextruder) from the XL are also in the MK4. The biggest differences are:
- Bigger print volume. 36x36x36 vs 25x10x22
- 16 zone heated bed
- Tool changer with 5 tool heads.
- CoreXY
RE: MK4 VS XL
I am actually also re-considering if to continue with my XL pre-order or not as those printers are similar in many aspects but price difference is huge...
I found these benefits:
- Print volume: 36x36x36 on XL vs 25x21x22 cm on Mk4
- Tool changers only on XL
- CoreXY design
And these disbenefits:
- Clearly price (20k vs 53k for basic versions, 28k vs 94k for Mk4 with MMU3 vs XL with 5 extruders)
- No WIFI on XL (!?)
- Energy consumption on XL
- Consumes more physical space
- Will have smaller community
- Higher weight (too heavy for Ikea Lack ...)
- Delivery date much later than for Mk4
Unclear at this moment (at least for me 😜 ):
- Unclear if XL will support MMU3 (currently unfortunately nothing suggest it in my opinion)
- Board with "extension connectors", I would say currently it's unclear if it will be possible to use them for something more than extra extruders
- Unclear final speeds for XL vs Mk4
- Unclear if software will allow printing with multiple nozzle sizes during single print (like some parts with 0.25 mm nozzle, some parts with 0.4 mm).
- Unclear what motors are used in XL (I read somewhere they are stronger, but allow for same precision?)
- Unclear noise level of XL
RE: MK4 VS XL
I gotta say it again, for LESS than the price of the current XL you can get TWO MK4.
That makes the build volume 500*420*220.
The wifi is not a selling point (nor is prusalink or prusaconnect in my opinion, at the moment). The current wifi radio in the MK4 is dog $h*t slow - see other posts about it.
Why are you worried about the XL supporting MMU3? You can, and probably should buy it with the color changer it's already being designed around.
I have the utmost confidence that the XL will be faster than the MK4. I believe that the MK4's marketed speeds, while truly faster, aren't actually that much more than an MK3S+.
AFIAK the XL will have a tool changer, so it stands to reason that that you can run multiple sized nozzles HOWEVER that feature doesn't yet appear in Prusaslicer. At least not in plain sight.
RE: MK4 VS XL
Yep, exactly my thinking...
Problem with two Mk4 is that you cannot print things in single piece (and that would be main benefit for me, I don't mind to wait double time for two pieces ...).
Oh good to know! Had no clue wifi is slow in Mk4. Agree it's not super important as you can always use Raspberry & OctoPrint. Mentioned it mostly for completnes of what I am aware of.
Extruder changer seems great in XL and definitely planning to use it if I'll go into XL. The reason why I am looking on MMU3 in combination with XL is purely adding ability for more materials ... It would allow you to print from up to 25 colors or having 5 different nozzle sizes each with 5 colors, etc. Personally I find 5 colors restricting as most models I wanted to print with my current MMU2S had more than 5 colors... Also it's not only about colors, but in general switching materials...
Yep, I think same about speeds and tool changers. I really hope (and believe) Průša will add this feature eventually as it's so obvious thing ...
RE: MK4 VS XL
I gotta say it again, for LESS than the price of the current XL you can get TWO MK4.
That makes the build volume 500*420*220.
If you're going to a 5 tool changer XL, you can actually buy 3.6 MK4's (preassembled). But that being said, build volume is not "additive". If you absolutely positively need to print something that is single piece and more than 25 x 21 x 22 (in any single direction), then you need to go to an XL (at least if you are staying with Prusa). If you absolutely positively need a tool changer, then you need an XL.
It's clear that the XL isn't targeted towards the average consumer, it's targeted toward businesses. People for whom single device efficiency is worth the upfront investment. The XL has roughly 4x the total print volume (11,550 cm3 vs 46,656 cm3) and if you're, lets say, a printing business and have a model that can be stacked with multiple copies into the same space - then that massive volume could means a significant increase of throughput. More than 3 * MK4's. Or if your models require a second/third/whatever filament (lets say water soluble supports), the reduced waste of a tool changer without the need to purge huge amounts - could save you a lot of money in the long term.
RE: MK4 VS XL
The biggest difference between the MK4 with MMU and the XL is that the MK4 with MMU is a multi filament printer. The XL with the tool changer is a multi material printer. With multi material you have the ability to print CF/PC balls inside a PETG race using water soluble filament as a support material and using TPU as a seal. You can design and print a water valve with seals as a print in place piece. This is next level 3d printing.
RE: MK4 VS XL
The biggest difference between the MK4 with MMU and the XL is that the MK4 with MMU is a multi filament printer. The XL with the tool changer is a multi material printer. With multi material you have the ability to print CF/PC balls inside a PETG race using water soluble filament as a support material and using TPU as a seal. You can design and print a water valve with seals as a print in place piece. This is next level 3d printing.
And you can’t do that with the MMU?
Soluble supports are one thing I’m looking forward to with my future MK4 and the MMU3 (have the Mini now). And that’s definitely something you can do, and has been an option in PrusaSlicer specifically for over two years.
RE: MK4 VS XL
The biggest difference between the MK4 with MMU and the XL is that the MK4 with MMU is a multi filament printer. The XL with the tool changer is a multi material printer. With multi material you have the ability to print CF/PC balls inside a PETG race using water soluble filament as a support material and using TPU as a seal. You can design and print a water valve with seals as a print in place piece. This is next level 3d printing.
And you can’t do that with the MMU?
Soluble supports are one thing I’m looking forward to with my future MK4 and the MMU3 (have the Mini now). And that’s definitely something you can do, and has been an option in PrusaSlicer specifically for over two years.
You can with some challenges depending on the material types. There's a decent thread here about it. The TLDR is that MMU with materials of vastly different hot end settings are "problematic". For example PLA and water soluble filaments are basically the same temp, so all good. ABS and water soluble? No go (ignoring the fact that they wouldn't really stick to each other anyways).
RE: MK4 VS XL
The biggest difference between the MK4 with MMU and the XL is that the MK4 with MMU is a multi filament printer. The XL with the tool changer is a multi material printer. With multi material you have the ability to print CF/PC balls inside a PETG race using water soluble filament as a support material and using TPU as a seal. You can design and print a water valve with seals as a print in place piece. This is next level 3d printing.
And you can’t do that with the MMU?
Soluble supports are one thing I’m looking forward to with my future MK4 and the MMU3 (have the Mini now). And that’s definitely something you can do, and has been an option in PrusaSlicer specifically for over two years.
You can with some challenges depending on the material types. There's a decent thread here about it. The TLDR is that MMU with materials of vastly different hot end settings are "problematic". For example PLA and water soluble filaments are basically the same temp, so all good. ABS and water soluble? No go (ignoring the fact that they wouldn't really stick to each other anyways).
If they don't stick to each other, then a tool changer isn't going to help things either.
While I don't yet own an MMU, seems the main benefit of the tool changer is much faster changes between different filaments, and much less waste due to lack of purging to change color. Not really that you can have a wider amount of materials.
Seems like that's what the thread pretty much said. People said you could have wide temp changes, but you may just have to do manual gcode edits because PrusaSlicer didn't support, but it seemed more an "ease of use" than a "can't physically do".
RE: MK4 VS XL
Also, while I am going to order an MK4 as soon as the kit is released, one of my coworkers, who uses the 3D printers we have at work (I don't currently use the work ones), and also has Prusa printers, said he's thinking of ordering an XL for work to replace our MakerBot FDM printer. So I may get some experience, or at least seen in operation, an XL. So that will be cool.
RE: MK4 VS XL
PVA (water soluble) can be used with PLA, ABS, and PETG in the MMU. But the temperatures are to much different to use it with Nylons or PC. You need different print heads for that.
Soluble supports are one thing I’m looking forward to with my future MK4 and the MMU3 (have the Mini now). And that’s definitely something you can do, and has been an option in PrusaSlicer specifically for over two years.
It depends what you are using it for. If you just want clean supported surfaces for a superhero model or a trinket then yes, it works fairly well.
But if you are using solubles to support functional parts or to seperate print-in-place components then you have to purge massive amounts or even the tiny residues remaining in the hotend are enough seriously to weaken the part after dissolving the supports.
Cheerio,