RE: Input Shaper.......
I'm not sure this is relevant because they have been very clear that they are NOT using Marlin's implementation of input shaping so they should have no reliance on 2.1. They stated that are writing input shaping from scratch but inspired by the Klipper implementation because the Marlin implementation is inferior.
The MK4 seems to be at 2.0.x, so it will require months before Prusa will migrate to the new version.
Keep in mind that Marlin 2 isn't quite as stable as the well-established Marlin 1 and Prusa don't like to roll out unstable printers with experimental firmware that could compromise the whole MK4 functionalities, so I expect they will release a 2.1 with input shaper when they will be sure it is reliable (not immediately).
RE: Input Shaper.......
For me the main thing is Input Shaper, and I've based my purchase decision off of that. Surely they can't state that the new printer is compatible, then leave it for 3 years before they deliver! Even if they released an approx timescale, like "within the next 6 months", even that would be something. As it is, its been left completely open ended.
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Input Shaper.......
Yes, that is disappointing indeed. If you are ready to wave the warranty for the MK4 it should be technically possible to flash the buddy board with Klipper but as long as there is no config file from someone who has successfully done that on the Mk4 it is a bit more demanding. It is also probably just a very niche application. Few people are probably ready to change to a completely different firmware. It would be cool to see someone doing it however to test what the technical capabilities of the printer would be with input shaper, ie to see how much it is actually kept back by its current firmware in terms of achievable performance.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Input Shaper.......
The final release has been left open ended, but I think Prusa said at least twice that he expected an alpha firmware with input shaper in the next month. Which would be by around the end of April.
For me the main thing is Input Shaper, and I've based my purchase decision off of that. Surely they can't state that the new printer is compatible, then leave it for 3 years before they deliver! Even if they released an approx timescale, like "within the next 6 months", even that would be something. As it is, its been left completely open ended.
RE: Input Shaper.......
I've been dealing with an escalated team of developers, designers, and techs on their side for an MK4 issue and had the chance during some dead air to ask how IS was going. It sounds like it's going to be in alpha quite a while longer, or have a lot of beta iterations.
The impression I got was they're finding too much variability in the algorithm and it's either going to require end-user calibration or have a generic value that takes away some of the finer details like others have implemented.
RE: Input Shaper.......
The impression I got was they're finding too much variability in the algorithm and it's either going to require end-user calibration or have a generic value that takes away some of the finer details like others have implemented.
That doesn't sound good at all.
Input shaping is one of the major selling points imho, if it doesn't materialize in a timely fashion it will destroy a lot of their reputation.
RE: Input Shaper.......
Completely agree. It’s one of the points that stood out to me prior to purchase in fact.
If there are too many variables then provide me with the required hardware (for free considering it is a promised feature) so that I can calibrate it myself!
The impression I got was they're finding too much variability in the algorithm and it's either going to require end-user calibration or have a generic value that takes away some of the finer details like others have implemented.
That doesn't sound good at all.
Input shaping is one of the major selling points imho, if it doesn't materialize in a timely fashion it will destroy a lot of their reputation.
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Input Shaper.......
Like I said above. You don't need extra hardware to calibrate input shaper. You merely need a calibration print with input shaper setting iterations during the print and the ability to enter 2-3 variables, some way to the firmware. It really is just a software issue.
That said, if you have a hardware solution it can be done fully automatic. I personally wouldn't consider it a massive deal, given that a single calibration should suffice as long as you don't mod or move the printer to some other setup.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Input Shaper.......
There’s no benefit of Prusa releasing input shaping in the way that they did. I suspect like many others that they planned the feature using a sensor hence the jack for it existing but are having supply issues obtaining it, or running into issues with it, and are saving face by advertising the feature in the way they are. There is absolutely no reason to deploy this “feature” in the way they are over actually having a sensor in place which would permit changes based on real time readings.
RE: Input Shaper.......
What's that? #disappointment
Input Shaper.......
RE: Input Shaper.......
Looking at the firmware, they seem to be using the LIS3DH for accelerometer input which is fairly cheap and widely available.
RE: Input Shaper.......
If so that’s super cheap, which confuses me even more as to why it wasn’t just included?!
Looking at the firmware, they seem to be using the LIS3DH for accelerometer input which is fairly cheap and widely available.
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Input Shaper.......
If so that’s super cheap, which confuses me even more as to why it wasn’t just included?!
My guess is the input shaping stuff was a very last minute addition and was never really planned for the MK4 initially. Evidenced by the fact the software component wasn't even ready for launch, and is still unclear how far away it is.
I do wonder if sales of the MK3 were beginning to suffer significantly due to newer and faster competitors and so they felt the pressure to respond in feature parity but also get something new out there asap, and so just decided to launch what they had with the promise of it getting better down the track.
RE: Input Shaper.......
Well just because we can easily buy 10 of them on Adafruit doesn't mean that it would be easy to secure a large supply of them. I don't know their sales volume but it was already an included feature on the XL toolheads so they need to potentially supply 5 per printer for those, and if they included it in the MK4 that would be 2 per printer. Multiply that by over 1000 per month and I can see where it might be difficult to source right now. Ultimately the code is very basic connections and sensor reading since they obviously wouldn't post their input shaping work publicly yet, but they are just reading the sensor data over an I2C bus which is more than capable of having multiple devices connected to it. I think it's feasible that they could release a cheap upgrade that connected two sensors to that single port if it's just an issue of supply right now. Also as a fun aside, while I was digging around I also noticed that the headers for the touch screen driver were added to the build targets for the MK4 already but they are disabled at the moment. The love board on the extruder also appears to have it's own EPROM to store load cell calibration data on for the printer which is pretty cool.
RE: Input Shaper.......
But thats just it - yes they can release it as a future upgrade to connect 2 sensors to the one port, but considering it was a marketed feature of the MK4, it best be a free upgrade. I, for one, would not be happy having to pay extra, no matter how small the cost, to enable a feature that was promised as a firmware update upon original release!
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Input Shaper.......
Didn’t they say they will just put an input shaper value in the firmware?
Which makes from my perspective absolutely no sense, as it is highly impacted by the belt tension.
I want my own accelerometer and measure the exact resonances.
RE: Input Shaper.......
Well just because we can easily buy 10 of them on Adafruit doesn't mean that it would be easy to secure a large supply of them. I don't know their sales volume but it was already an included feature on the XL toolheads so they need to potentially supply 5 per printer for those, and if they included it in the MK4 that would be 2 per printer. Multiply that by over 1000 per month and I can see where it might be difficult to source right now. Ultimately the code is very basic connections and sensor reading since they obviously wouldn't post their input shaping work publicly yet, but they are just reading the sensor data over an I2C bus which is more than capable of having multiple devices connected to it. I think it's feasible that they could release a cheap upgrade that connected two sensors to that single port if it's just an issue of supply right now. Also as a fun aside, while I was digging around I also noticed that the headers for the touch screen driver were added to the build targets for the MK4 already but they are disabled at the moment. The love board on the extruder also appears to have it's own EPROM to store load cell calibration data on for the printer which is pretty cool.
If you’re fine making your own board, Mouser has 6,583 in stock with 12,730 expected June 26th of the LIS3DHTR.
I really like Adafruit, but companies generally aren’t buying breakout boards from a hobbies supply shop. Though I guess there was that decision to use the ESP01…
RE: Input Shaper.......
As I posted in the design flaw update for today...
Input Shaper is still having the issues I mentioned several updates back. They are finding more variance between machines than anticipated so their "generic" algorithm isn't providing the best output. They're going to continue to work on it but the end result will have some "smoothing" effect to fine details. They do plan on having an accelerometer available at some point down the road. The actual public stable release of IS sounds like a long ways off.
RE:
So in other words they promised a feature that they aren’t even sure they can properly deliver. And above all else we will possibly have to pay extra for a feature if we want the best accuracy, which was again promised from the start.
At this point they should just bundle in the accelerometer with all future sales, and provide it for free to all users who have already purchased, considering it was a feature that was marketed alongside the printer - and in todays market, it’s not a minor feature either.
I fear we are looking at a MK4s already! Lol
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Input Shaper.......
Not a surprise to me.
Input Shaping is directly related to the belts tension, and also the mass, which is an issue on a bed slinger on Y. (even though I think it’s minor on most prints)
I would like to get at least the option to hook up any ADXL sensor and do my own calibration.
As I posted in the design flaw update for today...
Input Shaper is still having the issues I mentioned several updates back. They are finding more variance between machines than anticipated so their "generic" algorithm isn't providing the best output. They're going to continue to work on it but the end result will have some "smoothing" effect to fine details. They do plan on having an accelerometer available at some point down the road. The actual public stable release of IS sounds like a long ways off.