MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled
 
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Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

Tried and Ender 3 V2, it never worked, not to hard to build anger inducing printing. Then I have used a Prusa Mini semi assembled, prints like a dream, maintenance easy because of the few parts. Want to upgrade, decide for a kit since I have heard it takes about 7-8 hours to assemble. I open the kit, and the sheer volume of parts get me frustrated right away, and if I knew how assembling it would be, I would have just returned it and gotten the assembled mk4.

As of now I'm finished with chapter 4 of the manual. The process of building is nothing but annoying anger inducing frustration why wasn't I warned but recommended the kit? You're going forward then going backward to adjust something to assure its aligned, then you have to constantly fight the 3D printed parts because things will not fit correctly, parts get stuck have fight them out, information lacking in the first chapter (the new M3nE nuts), constantly scared you are going to zap any electronics with static electricity, even the cable sleeve is a major pain in the ass. Your back hurts your finger hurts having to stand over and find angles and pushing things in place... And I logg on I see comments like, "I struggle to follow manuals and assemble furniture but this is easy", what a joke, I've assembled Ikea, its not even comparable.  The 14-16 hours this is going to take me isn't worth it, I don't have time for this, if I have to readjust anything I'm not touching it again. Please Prusa stop with the annoying 3D printed parts, and recommending the kit without  warning  that 80% of the steps in the manual is frustration rather than easy steps. This is the type of thing that makes you just want to go to the dark side (Bambu) out of anger. I guess most people manage to somehow make themselves happy about anything, I've seen the Creality crowd have this strange behavior where they trick themselves into love having to tinker forever...

I guess this is just feedback

This topic was modified 3 weeks ago 3 times by Oompyor
Posted : 11/02/2024 10:05 pm
Chris Hill
(@chris-hill)
Trusted Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I don't think your experience is typical.  A great many people prefer the kits because of the enjoyment they get from assembling them.  I've done a MK3S+, and a MK4, and yesterday I did a MK3.9, and I have enjoyed the process each time.  I'd say 7-8 hours is rather optimistic, especially for a first time build.  I like to go slowly and methodically, and my MK3.9 took around 10.5 hours, including stripping down the donor MK3S+, and that's with the experience of building a MK4 only about 6 or 7 months ago.

I've never had the problems you describe with the printed parts - I find them well designed with thoughtful touches (like the hole that lets you push the square nuts into their slots using the allen key).  I'd suggest it's better to use the online assembly manual (is the paper version even an option anymore?  Not sure), and if you have any doubts about any steps then read the comments from people who've been there before.

Posted : 12/02/2024 9:57 am
Oregun and Brian liked
ronnie12342003
(@ronnie12342003)
Estimable Member
RE:

8 hours max to build the mk4

Posted : 12/02/2024 10:05 am
miroslav.h4
(@miroslav-h4)
Honorable Member
RE:

The fact that there are people who "can't even drive a staple into the wall" is normal. It is no longer normal that they vent this incompetence by writing posts like this, where they attack the others, "that this is bad and that is even worse", without trying to do something about themselves. I enjoyed the MK4 build, as I did the MK2 years ago. I've also enjoyed rebuilding the MK2 into a rigid frame, building the MMU1, and building another copy of the MK2 from scratch from just home-printed parts and purchased hardware (electronics, bearing rods, motors, etc.) including compiling the firmware, and it's always been fun.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by miroslav.h4
Posted : 12/02/2024 10:21 am
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I used the online manual in conjunction with a video guide.

Ronnie:

The 7-8 hour is a lie that some people who don't time themselves say. It's more likely around 10 hours at least for most first time builders who are careful building.

Ronnie and miroslav:

if you cant admit that building something with the mentioned annoyances below is not frustrating then I don't know what will convince you. Just from chapter 4 in the manual these things happened:

having stuck parts (rod) that your scared you will breake once trying to get it out breaking the 3d printed part, having to look in comments and  additional videos to find out how to get rods inside and end up device ur own method where you gently hold it and slighlty hammer it into place, not being able to get ziptie thorugh due to too tight parts, fighting a 6 dimensional cable holder, readjusting the nuts in parts becaaue the parts are not  accurate, not being able to push nuts inside because hole is too narrow in 3d printed part, scared you will breake the cable or board because of tight fitting, scared you will zap the board as you fiddle so much to get it in place... you just know that people are inaincere about thw whole process... nothing of that is practical or not annoying part of any manual and thats why i have a hard time listening to anyone who claim it's all fine and dandy it's not. A sane person would say all of that is frustrating, its dishonest to say something else or your fooling yourself... i like to suppoet european manufacturer, and i know prusa has longer experience ans parts that have a proven longevity, thats why i chose it over the bambu A1. And you can see that in the recent recalls of all A1 printers. but once these machines are 1-2 year old and bambu has replaced troublesome parts i dont think i can jusitfy paying double the price for something that takes so muvh time to build i could purchase a new A1 working the time it would take to put a MK4 together. The build annoyance is the worst part. The finished MK4 build is 3 time as expensive as the A1, at that point im not interested

Posted : 12/02/2024 11:31 am
Zappes liked
rogersbarn
(@rogersbarn)
Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I just finished my MK4 build yesterday and I had a complete opposite experience. I enjoyed the build so much and was almost sad when it was over. I went with the printed assembly manual as I don't have a tablet or space for a laptop on the workbench. I assembled it just step by step exactly as per instructions. Everything fitted beatifully. The only problem was with the Y axis calibration at the end as the instructions are a bit missleading there. Just place those bearings also centred and all is good.

My first 3d printer was an Orca V0.3, back in 2011, also an assembly kit and I can tell you that was a different beast. The MK4 is much more like assembling LEGO, you go step by step, prepare parts and only do what you're told and it will just work. 

I thank PRUSA for the great assembly experience, it was just a lot of fun. 

 

Posted : 12/02/2024 1:23 pm
Brian
(@brian-12)
Estimable Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I've also built 2 Mk3S+ and a MK4, and soon an XL.

I've also enjoyed assembling the printers and have had ZERO issues with the build quality or the instructions. I actually found them very specific and easy to understand.

I guess all I can say is that a kit is not for everybody and that's why they offer assembled printers too.

I'd just take your time and finish the build.  Look on the plus side, you'll know the printer inside and out.

Posted by: @miroslav-h4

The fact that there are people who "can't even drive a staple into the wall" is normal. It is no longer normal that they vent this incompetence by writing posts like this, where they attack the others, "that this is bad and that is even worse", without trying to do something about themselves. I enjoyed the MK4 build, as I did the MK2 years ago. I've also enjoyed rebuilding the MK2 into a rigid frame, building the MMU1, and building another copy of the MK2 from scratch from just home-printed parts and purchased hardware (electronics, bearing rods, motors, etc.) including compiling the firmware, and it's always been fun.

I'm actually amazed that Prusa offers a warranty with kits based on this.  Can you imagine the amount of warranty related things there are just based on letting the user assemble it? 

Posted : 12/02/2024 2:35 pm
Oregun liked
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

I built many small and big lego technic models when I was younger, this isn't comparable. Every piece there fits together nicely, never have I ever had to prepare a plastic part and force and push things to align...

You just claim "great assembly" experience without giving any specific details... I gave many details of exact actions you take that are decidedly inconvenient and frustrating. Your the kind of post that gives no substance to the claim and confuse people into building it instead of getting it preassembled. I'm 100% sure that most people don't have this experience "Everything fitted beautifully", why else would even Prusa themselves give instructions on how to make their 3D printed parts fit better by doing things like cleaning out the holes so that parts will fit inside. If "everything" just fitted fine this wouldn't even be needed. Please can people stop deluding themselves, I see this same positivity even with Creality printers when critique should be the only substantiated response.

The build process has made me angry. I was quite excited and happy about printing on it (waited for some time to decide what printer to get) and that makes me even angrier that it ruined my mood... Not sure I will finish building it, I juwt want to think about something else to get my mood back to normal, not sure if Prusa takes returns with half finished builds. I cannot delude myself to love tinkering and building a 3D printer, unless it was something boundary-pushing; new feature. To me its wasted time, I have many other things i want to spend my time doing. I want to 3d print not to do engineering work, if i signed up for that i would do soemthing else....

This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by Oompyor
Posted : 12/02/2024 2:43 pm
Zappes
(@zappes)
Estimable Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I guess it's a question of what you expect when buying a printer. Some people thoroughly enjoy the building experience, others just want to get printing. As I am one of the latter, I bought an assembled MK4 because I simply knew that the building experience would bore and frustrate me. I might have acted differently if I had a well-lit workplace with a really large table, but the idea of doing this in the living room... No, thanks.

That being said, I assume that nothing's wrong with the Prusa kits, at least not systemically. Still, you can also be the unlucky person who receives some less than perfect parts in your kit, I guess. The real problem here was not that, I would say though. My impression is rather that the OP made a bad decision when buying the kit instead of the fully assembled version. Sad, but it surely was a valuable learning experience for future purchases of that kind.

My models on Printables
Posted : 12/02/2024 2:45 pm
Brian liked
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

Yes, I should have purchased the finished product :/  It would be incredibly helpful if the support chat was actually realistic about the kit and inform me the amount of parts and steps and tight work that is needed instead of recommending it. 3D printing is frustrating in itself, you turn people away by not making it easy. But on the other side I think Prusa would recommend kits because then they potentially loose less market share to Bambu since the assembled MK4 is quite pricy, and if this is the case (which it probably is) then it annoys me even more

This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by Oompyor
Posted : 12/02/2024 2:48 pm
Zappes
(@zappes)
Estimable Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I don't see anything nefarious going on here. The supporters are probably used to a customer base that's capable and, most of all, willing to build such a kit. It's just how it has always been.

People like you and me are just a kind of customer the supporters aren't used to, yet. It's the price of growing from a niche manufacturer of geek toys to a producer of mainstream appliances.

My models on Printables
Posted : 12/02/2024 3:17 pm
miroslav.h4
(@miroslav-h4)
Honorable Member
RE:

 

Posted by: @oompyor

Yes, I should have purchased the finished product :/  It would be incredibly helpful if the support chat was actually realistic about the kit and inform me the amount of parts and steps and tight work that is needed instead of recommending it. 3D printing is frustrating in itself, you turn people away by not making it easy. But on the other side I think Prusa would recommend kits because then they potentially loose less market share to Bambu since the assembled MK4 is quite pricy, and if this is the case (which it probably is) then it annoys me even more

I'm just surprised that you didn't look at Prusa and look at the online manual to see what awaits you before ordering the kit. From this point of view alone, it should be clear to you that you will not be able to build a kit. And yet you ordered it. But that was your choice, so please don't "throw fire and brimstone" at the others who are able to build the kit. And if, according to your words, even 3D printing is frustrating, then you have already been offered here to find another hobby. It is also in the interest of your health, both mental and physical. And as for the problem with the Bambulab A1 and its pad, know one thing: The pad is powered by 230V directly from the mains, which means that even if bambu sends you new parts, you still can't replace them yourself. According to the regulations, if you do not have electrical engineering education, you must not interfere with the printer at all and change or repair anything. Which is not the case with the Prusa, because the only place where the voltage is 230V is built directly into a closed power supply out of your reach. Everything else is implemented with a low voltage of 24 V and less.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by miroslav.h4
Posted : 12/02/2024 4:24 pm
Oregun liked
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

What does 3D printing frustration have to do with building the printer? There is a reward with printing itself, and you know there are accuracy limits to 3D printing so you dont go crazy with the builds. Building a 3D printer, I don't see any rewards, and this particular build is clunky and cumbersome. I accept the reward to frustration ratio of 3D printing, not building the printer. I took it for granted when people say around 7 hours and that its an easy build,, 7 hours is not realistic for most people and its not easy, almost every step is frustrating, having to check parts make them fit... I surely should have given it more thought, and again it would be very useful for the support to help me make an informed choice!!!

Yes, I don't trust Bambu with their products yet, that's one of the two major reasons I went with Prusa; Prusa is reliable, and I can support a local business. They have issued full refund for anyone who owns a A1, I'm not sure if they cover the shipping. So yes its safe to say I don't trust the A1 product until maybe two years have passed.

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Oompyor
Posted : 12/02/2024 4:32 pm
efvee
(@efvee)
Eminent Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I built my MK4 in november. It was a first for me. I do not recognize the OP's experience. Building took me more than 8 hours but I preferred easy and steady over rush. The manual was very good. What took time were comments referring to situations that were resolved in the mean while and so have become obsolete. I do understand 'pruning' would be a sensitive subject but it would be good if they were marked as 'solved'. If I were to build another I would change the sequence here and there, like mounting the Y-motor in a much later stage.

Posted : 12/02/2024 7:29 pm
Oregun and Brian liked
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

Ronnie, I'm not that inept, and I have made okey reasoning with specific examples as to why anyone could dislike the process, yet so many don't for some silly reason, not trolling at all. As with efvee, I also like to take my time as having to redo something often leads to more wasted time and more frustration. So 8 hour mark is not realistic, at least not for first time builders

Posted : 12/02/2024 7:41 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I've assembled Ikea, its not even comparable

I built many small and big lego technic models

Uh, yeah. A printer is a piece of (more or less) sophisticated mechanical engineering, plus some electronics so it takes a bit more patience than a lego blocks or a Billy cabinet. 

Posted : 12/02/2024 7:48 pm
Brian liked
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

I am somewhat aware of that, but then there are way too many people on here saying they never had any of the problems I have, its all a lie. People who do bad with manuals for easier builds say this is easy, the cope is real, I know you can be happy that you have a great 3D printer now, but that clouds the build judgement of way too many people, and then they give shitty advice. Other people with furstrating 3D printing and 3d build experiences have less patience than you most likely, they also have less time for long winded builds like this... I will probably end up complaining for enough time that I could have built the MK4...

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Oompyor
Posted : 12/02/2024 8:14 pm
miroslav.h4
(@miroslav-h4)
Honorable Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled
Posted by: @oompyor

I built many small and big lego technic models when I was younger, this isn't comparable. Every piece there fits together nicely, never have I ever had to prepare a plastic part and force and push things to align...

 

Unfortunately, support doesn't know anything about your clumsiness, and you sure as hell didn't mention it to them. That is, if you talked about it with support at all, but it doesn't matter now. The support here does not come from making some decisions for someone or pushing someone into his decision. The construction was completed by thousands of people who ordered the kit. Unfortunately, the printer is not LEGO Technics, but a pretty sophisticated device, and I don't know of anyone trying to build a printer with LEGO. Yes, maybe someone tried and built it, but it was unusable for work. It's all about your decision and it's not worth venting your frustration here and blaming others for your failure in construction. And just to conclude: The parts of the printer are not fragile, you can use a little more force without them breaking. It's just about adequacy, because of course the printer won't survive the blows of a kilogram hammer, that must be clear to everyone.

Posted : 12/02/2024 8:25 pm
Oompyor
(@oompyor)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

I haven't failed to construct it, I'm almost half way through,  I'm just not motivated to continue for all the reasons above... It's not clumsiness either, its just how the kit has to be put together and the pieces. Another example, like to start off you get shittiest screws to build the frame, the tool to screw them barely grab them and you almost ruin the screws as you try to screw them in 1/5 screws for this purpose I got was fine. Then you have to untighten all the scews because you are suddenly informed that the frame needs to be straight, just mention that from the start and give me proper screws. The rest of the build is equally or more frustrating

Posted : 12/02/2024 8:32 pm
blauzahn
(@blauzahn)
Reputable Member
RE: MK4 kit, really frustrating assembly wish I was recommended fully assembled

Agreed, the time estimate for assembly is highly optimistic. It may be doable for somebody with a lot of experience and a few better tools to slap a printer together in that time. Question is: Would it work well over time. For everybody else, my advice is: Assume, that it will take you A LOT longer, maybe even an order of magnitude. I do have an enginering background. Yet, I decided to take my time with it. IMHO, that had payed of since. If you previously have assembled a Mini, there is no doubt why an MK4 kit shocked you. Right now, I am about to assemble an XL. Or rather, at the moment, I have disassembled most of the preassembled things. Fingers crossed,  I can get everything together again. And yes, at a few places, the assembly of an MK3/4 is fiddly or clumsy. Apart from the cabling, I probably have forgotten the places, were I sweared at my MK3S. I assume that its assembly was even worse than the MK4's. E.g. the electronic box of the MK3S did (and still does) its job but thats about it. Having a handful quality tools was quite a relief for me compared to the basic tools provided with the kit. The most important one is a straight 2.5mm allen key screw driver. Then come one with a 2.5mm ball head. I also changed the M5 screws of the frame versus some with a regular cylinder head. If memory serves me, at least for my MK3S, the assembly manual actually mentioned at some places, not to tighten screws too early. Having the best straight assembly plate available is also a good idea.

Honestly, good luck with your further assembly, calibration and initial use. There will be more times to swear. Try to keep your patience. Then it will finally work well.

Posted : 12/02/2024 9:46 pm
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