Will Input Shaping Change Filament Chemistry?
 
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Razor
(@razor)
Estimable Member
Will Input Shaping Change Filament Chemistry?

I’ve searched for discussions on this topic and really haven’t found anything similar. My apologies if it does exist elsewhere in these forums.

I finally had a chance to update the firmware on my Mini and started using the input shaper. WOW! As far as I’m concerned all the information regarding the impact of the feature have been understated. In comparison of the Mini to the MK3S+, not only are my holiday gift drink coasters printed at a smaller layer height (.2mm vs .3mm), they are equal to or better in quality, and without any optimization each one is printed in a fraction of the time (46m vs 1h3m). Using similar optimization settings as I have on the MK3S+ (.3mm layer height, smaller number of top and bottom layers, etc.) I was able to reduce the Mini to 37m per piece. Without spending a dime I have a completely different printer, Thank you Prusa for releasing this feature for older machines.

One thing I have noticed is that print speeds are now exceeding the filament manufacturers’ recommended settings. For example I’m a PolyMaker user. Their PLA + is recommended to print at 30-70mm/s. My slice shows speeds up to 140mm/s. I figured what the heck, let’s try it, and without ANY tweaking it worked!

It got me to thinking, PolyMaker also manufactures PolySonic high speed filaments; https://us.polymaker.com/products/polysonic-pla

They state that it;

A material is considered "High Speed" if it fulfills the following 3 criteria at a set printing temperature:

  1. Flowability: It can extrude consistently at 24mm3/s on popular extrusion system. (equivalent to 300mm/s at 0.2mm layer height with a 0.4mm nozzle)
  2. Formability: At 24mm3/s, it maintains similar surface quality, overhang and bridging as printed at lower speed.
  3. Functionality: At 24mm3/s, it maintains at least 80% of its overall mechanical properties when printing at lower speed. (mainly: layer adhesion, tensile strength and impact strength)

I believe the feature was designed to work with current filament chemistry. Is a high speed filament needed now that input shaping is here? 

Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool

Posted : 18/12/2023 3:37 pm
FoxRun3D
(@foxrun3d)
Famed Member
RE: Will Input Shaping Change Filament Chemistry?

Is a high speed filament needed now that input shaping is here? 

A good question. Just anecdotally, I haven't see any issues at all printing any of my filaments using IS settings on a Mini, so my cautious answer would be "no". 

Formerly known on this forum as @fuchsr -- until all hell broke loose with the forum software...

Posted : 18/12/2023 4:54 pm
Razor liked
_KaszpiR_
(@_kaszpir_)
Prominent Member
RE:

It does not change chemistry of the filament, but it changes the physics (fluid dynamics) - the only thing changed is the speed of the extrusion (flow), which increases amount of heat the filament takes out when extruded - this it usually requires to increase temperature to keep the temperature gradient at specific level.
Moreover faster print speeds can increase faster cooling time, and this influences how plastic is formed and due to the shrinkage how it adheres to the surfaces (especially itself)

To change chemistry it would require much higher temperature which would effectively break polymer chains.

See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.

Posted : 18/12/2023 8:26 pm
Razor
(@razor)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Will Input Shaping Change Filament Chemistry?

I’m sure there is some difference in the design between a “standard PLA” and a “high flow” PLA to help with that though? Right? What else would be the difference in  an engineered filament as advertised?

Posted by: @_kaszpir_

It does not change chemistry of the filament, but it changes the physics (fluid dynamics) - the only thing changed is the speed of the extrusion (flow), which increases amount of heat the filament takes out when extruded - this it usually requires to increase temperature to keep the temperature gradient at specific level.
Moreover faster print speeds can increase faster cooling time, and this influences how plastic is formed and due to the shrinkage how it adheres to the surfaces (especially itself)

To change chemistry it would require much higher temperature which would effectively break polymer chains.

 

Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool

Posted : 18/12/2023 8:34 pm
_KaszpiR_
(@_kaszpir_)
Prominent Member
RE:

Oh, so the question is `will IS change the chemistry used to produce a filaments`? I guess I misinterpret question, then, sorry 🙂
How I read it was `will internal chemistry of the used filament change because of using IS while printing`.

Let me quote someone else, better suited to express my thoughts:

😀

OK, frankly speaking:
- Current filaments? Probably not. It's just there is enough plastic around that just needs more testing what it is capable of, and then if it fails then adapt to it? (which leads to the next question)/
- New filaments? Maybe, but probably time will tell. Worth to look at all those voron insane speed prints of a benchy under X minutes to see what they use and then see that there's usually nothing super special about those filaments (they exist already).

See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.

Posted : 18/12/2023 9:15 pm
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