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What is the point of this design  

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4XS
 4XS
(@4xs)
Eminent Member
What is the point of this design

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I never seen core XY in this configuration, which raise the extruder assembly, the common solution is always lower the build plate. Why choose to raise the extruder sense it require 4 motors and much complex control.

Best Answer by Netpackrat:

Because you can.  That's the point.

Publié : 24/03/2023 4:47 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: What is the point of this design

The fixed bed, makes mains power rapid heating of a large thick build plate, easy. 
Moving the bed  would put stress and strain, on mains powered or high current DC Powered heatbeds, and could potentially induce stress and strain into the heatbed
As beds get larger, cantilever beds get more difficult to control 

moving the light weight X/Y axis  Up and down smoothly, is easier than lifting  and lowering a heavy heatbed plus a heavy model

Having to move the entire bed and model to execute Z lift, is more difficult than moving the XY Gantry 

and last but not least, the designer thought it was the best way to manage the printer. 

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Publié : 24/03/2023 9:03 am
Netpackrat
(@netpackrat)
Reputable Member
RE: What is the point of this design

Because you can.  That's the point.

Publié : 24/03/2023 10:52 am
4XS a aimé
4XS
 4XS
(@4xs)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: What is the point of this design

I thought this model of Voron design is not rational, they maybe did it for the fun, but after some consideration I think there is a purpose. This is a convenient design for time lap video. Imagine how awkward to film a bed down.

Publié : 24/03/2023 7:05 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: What is the point of this design

They avoid moving the entire Y gantry like you do on a Prusa "bed slinger" Mk3 or Mini. It saves a LOT of weight, is more accurate, and minimizes moving the fragile print around at speed.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Publié : 24/03/2023 7:22 pm
Netpackrat
(@netpackrat)
Reputable Member
RE: What is the point of this design

What it came down to for me, was during the 6 weeks or so last year between when I placed my order, and Prusa actually shipping my 3S+ kit, I saw a video about the Voron 2.4 and I wanted one.  I don't care about timelapses and that's not something that even entered my thought process.  It can print higher temp materials relatively quickly, and it looks cool while doing so.  I have only had it running for about a week and a half, so I haven't done much beyond basic tuning (pressure advance, extrusion multiplier, i.e. the basic stuff).  The calibration cube it printed after doing those things looks significantly better than the best one my Prusa produced while preparing to print the Voron parts, and it printed in about 65% of the time.  I haven't tuned it for speed yet.  I am going to print with it for a while and let it run in, then readjust the belts, and run the input shaping calibration.

If you want to have a conventional CoreXY design with the bed that goes up and down, they offer the Trident design, which is essentially the same gantry as the 2.4, with a bed going up and down on 3 lead screws (hence the name).  It looks like a slightly less complicated build, BUT as far as I know the biggest supported build plate size is 300x300, whereas with the 2.4 you can build up to 350x350 due to not having to raise and lower that heavy bed.  I have read that it's a toss-up as to which is faster, and the answer depends on what you are trying to print.  But I don't really know beyond that.

I have some comparisons to make on the build compared to a Prusa.  When you buy the Prusa as a kit, you are buying something that is made to be as simple as possible, with documentation that pretty much holds your hand through the whole process, and Prusa support is waiting to help you should you need more.  To the extent possible, Prusa tests the electronics to ensure everything is going to function.  A few months after getting my first Prusa up and running, I built a modified Prusa Bear from scratch partly as a warm up to doing the more complex Voron build, and that was pretty similar to building the first Prusa other than self-sourcing everything, and having a few problems to solve along the way (like modifying the firmware).  When you buy the Voron kit, you are basically buying some company's take on the open source bill of materials.  Nothing has been tested together, nothing has been preconfigured (as an example, I had to configure all the many jumpers on the controller board), and while the documentation is amazing considering that like the printer, it was created by people who did so for free and for their own amusement, it is not hold-your-hand-simple like Prusa provides.  There's gaps, and you will scratch your head quite a lot trying to figure out what you are supposed to do next.  Once you get it working, the slicer profiles are pretty basic compared to what you have come to expect for your Prusa, and you will have to do a lot of tweaking to get something that works, along with basic tuning of the printer.  I'm still in the thick of that process.

If you can, spend a little more and get the LDO Motors kit...  It includes quality components, a lot of helpful extras, and the vast majority of the wiring is already pre-made and mapped out for you (I only had to crimp a few things).  The downside of that is you wind up jumping between different build guides a lot.  There's the LDO build guide which is mostly a list of things to do differently (i.e. at this page, do this instead of what the manual says), and the wiring guide replaces the Voron wiring guide completely.  Plus, since LDO has been tweaking and improving their kit all along, at certain steps you have to figure out which version of the kit components you have, and then find and follow the correct instructions for that revision.  I would definitely build it again, and I would definitely buy the LDO kit again, but expect a challenge.

Publié : 25/03/2023 10:26 am
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